How to get my supplier to set up my Economy 7 smart meter properly

catwin1

Deleted_User said:

Well there is a specific data table that determines which of the 48 periods the ALCS is open and closed.  It's not the same as the table that determines which register should be written to (although the data is normally identical).

One of the defined messages that can be sent to the smart meter is to replace this table.  The only entity allowed to send this message is the supplier.

Maybe I can ask them to send me this specific data table that determines which of the 48 periods the ALCS is open and closed? That's a consumer right, correct? Requesting access to my data?

[Deleted User]

catwin1 said:

Deleted_User said:

Well there is a specific data table that determines which of the 48 periods the ALCS is open and closed.  It's not the same as the table that determines which register should be written to (although the data is normally identical).

One of the defined messages that can be sent to the smart meter is to replace this table.  The only entity allowed to send this message is the supplier.

Maybe I can ask them to send me this specific data table that determines which of the 48 periods the ALCS is open and closed? That's a consumer right, correct? Requesting access to my data?

It's not data about you, so you don't have any right to it.

The last person with an unusual discrepancy like this got it fixed by the meter being physically replaced.

catwin1

[Deleted User] said:

catwin1 said:

Deleted_User said:

Well there is a specific data table that determines which of the 48 periods the ALCS is open and closed.  It's not the same as the table that determines which register should be written to (although the data is normally identical).

One of the defined messages that can be sent to the smart meter is to replace this table.  The only entity allowed to send this message is the supplier.

Maybe I can ask them to send me this specific data table that determines which of the 48 periods the ALCS is open and closed? That's a consumer right, correct? Requesting access to my data?

It's not data about you, so you don't have any right to it.

The last person with an unusual discrepancy like this got it fixed by the meter being physically replaced.

Ah, I see. It is very relevant to me and my quality of life though - I feel like consumers should be able to access this type of data.

Is there a way to know if the meter is faulty or if it's just the ALCS that needs to be configured? Looking at that table I suppose? I don't know how I'll get them to do that though, they're not very cooperative unfortunately. The meter is registering my usage after all, and communicating with them. It's just that they're not applying the right rates to the appropriate usage.

Do you know if I have a case against them if I am forced to pay most of my electricity at a rate that is not compliant with economy 7? Also, it seems complicated to switch suppliers at the moment  

macman

It's not 'complicated' to switch suppliers at present, there are only two that are taking on new customers, EDF and Octopus, and you can't do it online-phone or Twitter only.

MWT

catwin1 said:

I'll check tonight but UW did confirm that my off-peak rate is (officially) from 00:15 to 7:15 (but it's actually 00:37 to 7:37 from what I've observed on the IHD). I'll let you know if the meter corroborates this.

The time offset is permitted, it is part of the protocol that ensures that entire regions don't all switch on high-load devices at the same moment...

... but the change of register recording the use is supposed to happen at the same moment as the ALCS actually activates/deactivates.

The only entity that can fix this disparity between the registers and the ALCS is your energy supplier, but not all of them are good at dealing with the more complex/unusual aspects of smart meters.

All you can do is raise a complaint and tell them that the ALCS switching times are not in sync with the register change times and ask them to have their smart meter team fix the disparity. Also tell them that you expect them to refund you the amounts incorrectly charged as a result of the disparity.

Your only alternative is to switch to a supplier that has a better smart meter team (probably Octopus), but if you do that you have little chance of getting the incorrect charges fixed...

Phones4Chris

catwin1 said:

I'll check tonight but UW did confirm that my off-peak rate is (officially) from 00:15 to 7:15 (but it's actually 00:37 to 7:37 from what I've observed on the IHD). I'll let you know if the meter corroborates this.

Ah, this is where it can get confusing. Some IHDs have a count down timer in 10 minute chunks starting an hour before the tariff changes (theoretically).The IHD seems to display the peak/off-peak times that are stored in the tariff register. You could use the Bright App or n3rgy which reads that register to see if it compares to what you see on the IHD. But to clarify, when you say "I can see when my off-peak rate kicks in on my IHD (12:37am)" is that when you see the load increase or just the IHD saying that's when it switches? 

As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, this can be out of sync with the times that the ALCS changes. Also MWT has mentioned that the switching of the register recording could also be out of sync with the ALCS - yikes, also mentioned by SparkyGrad.
In the thread a few months ago, one user had their meter completely replaced!

n3rgy will show the energy being used in each of the 48 half hour periods. Your meter display should show when the registers switch as well as when the ALCS switches. You'll need to sit and look at the meter at the times they change to compare them, and compare with when the storage heaters/immersion actually start to use energy, this latter event should match what n3rgy shows.

EssexHebridean

UW’s complaints process is shockingly bad in my experience - so the first thing I would say is to raise a formal complaint (using their online form works OK and seems to get a fairly fast response, although that response might not be helpful) - note the date of that formal complaint for your own records, and be resilient about telling them not to close it until it actually is resolved. 

Scrounger

@catwin1, - just seen this discussion.

I noticed a similar problem last winter: my smart meter was switching to peak rate register in the mornings but the storage heaters were staying on (for a further 30 minutes).

EDF eventually replaced the meter (and paid £150 compensation).

It took about 6 months to get it resolved as discussed here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79131957#Comment_79131957

As mentioned above, you need to monitor at the meter during switching time (as the IHD doesn't always give accurate info).

Good luck in getting it sorted.


Scrounger

catwin1

Thank you all, it is reassuring to get support. Happy you got your issue sorted Scrounger, can’t believe it took 6 months though!

ALCS:
I can confirm that the ALCS is set to 23:00 as I heard it go off while I was next to the meter and the LED on the meter started flashing quickly. Oddly, the ALCS logs in the meter indicate 23:00 to 07:00, not 06:00, so it seems that it runs for 8 hours, not 7, even though I'm on economy 7. I’ll check the meter tomorrow at 07:00 to see what happens. Also, my off-peak circuit came on from 00:00 to 08:00 before we switched from BST to GMT (confirmed by the logs), but the n3rgy data seems to indicate that it was already 23:00 to 07:00, which is odd (or maybe it’s just an issue on their end).

I’m worried by something I read on smartme.co.uk/load-control.html:
These load control features are an optional part of the SMETS specification meaning that suppliers do not have to offer them to customers.

And after reading the bit on ALCSs in a gov document (Smart Meters and Demand Side Response: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/579774/291116_-_Smart_meters__Demand_Side_Response_leaflet_-_DR_-_FINAL.PDF), I’m not sure if the above applies only to ad hoc commands from energy suppliers or to economy 7 schedules as well? My economy 7 plan is useless to me if UW doesn’t change the ALCS setup… and they did tell me the smart meter would work with storage heaters and economy 7 before I accepted its installation.

Billing:
The tariff register in the meter is completely empty, so I'm assuming UW is just using the R01 and R02 readings to bill me, although I will only know for certain when I get my 1st bill, early December. I can already see that the R01 and R02 readings are off though as I barely use anything during the day and run my storage heaters and water tank at night. On the meter, the R01 reading, which UW has told me is my night usage, is not quite double my R02 reading. It should be a lot more.

I will take a reading of R01 and R02 24 hours apart (as suggested in another thread) and check that these 2 add up with what I see on the n3rgy website. My meter does show 2 different tariffs depending on the time of day though in Billing > Tariff > Now, so I’m assuming UW maps those to my DNO’s off-peak times (00:15 to 07:15) or the times when the tariff changes on my meter (00:37 to 07:37).

Thank you for your help and any insights you may have. I’m losing my mind a bit here.

Phones4Chris

It sounds like the ALCS is switching your storage heaters etc . "correctly" (but maybe not at the right time), but whether it is 7 or 8 hours, as you say, you need to confirm. The n3rgy data will be given in GMT now even for those times that were back in the summer.

The demand side response stuff you have been reading is more connected with some of the sort of tariffs that Octopus offer. @[Deleted User] is the primary expert on those.

You say the Tariff register is empty. Is that from n3rgy? A bug I discovered is that if you selected the last 90 days and the first day was before you registered, the data can come back empty. Just select the default last date range (one day) and just tick the Tariff box.The Tariff data should then be what's on the meter.

Yes UW will use the R01 and R02 registers for billing as do many suppliers with E7 tariffs. But what is not clear is when the registers are switching and what is shown on the meter display as regards the registers being used when the ALCS switches. Are you saying the meter display (not the IHD) shows the registers switch at 00:37 & 07:37 ?
This is what will determine what is charged to each register and if it's out of sync with the ALCS, that will explain your current readings because if the ALCS switches at 2300 the first 1hr37mins of use will be charged at day rate! In warmer weather (which we've had upto now) that could be most of the storage heater charge and certainly a lot of the immersion charge.