Replacing 2 windows and patio door - Beginner's questions

andre_xs

Dear All,
we're living in an mid 1950s build terraced ex-council house. The house is fine, but not to perfect picture-book standards. Some windows / doors are still old aluminium frame, and we would like to replace them now. Today we had the first visit & quote (Anglian), but more to come. However, after the visit and talking to the sales person, I realised some things are unclear:

1. We live at a busy road and one window goes to the front. The Anglian salesperson mentioned that they produce and fit the windows exactly to the cut-out in the wall, which produces better noise dampening than using a standard-made window plus expansion foam. Is there something to it, or just pointless sales-pitch?

2. Along similar lines (independent of Anglian), we are considering getting triple glazing for one window and the patio door. Not so much for insulation, but more for the noise cancellation. With Anglian, the one window and the patio door as triple instead of double glazing would be a surcharge of £900. Do you think it's worth it, or are the differences minimal?

3. For the patio door, we have the choice of sliding door (current) vs French door (without a beam in the middle). The door isn't to wide (~155cm). The obvious Pros and Cons are that the French door creates a nice large opening to the garden (but: in our case it may interfere a little bit with the conservatory door), while the sliding door would be more 'space saving'. Also, we once had French doors which were always 'hanging' and you had to lift them slightly to close them, was always fiddly / annoying, but they were (a) larger and (b) part of a conservatory which is probably a less solid construction with potential movement. Finally, I could imagine that a sliding door (with only a smaller beam in the middle) let's more light into the room than French doors (which probably have double the size of 'beam' because of two frames next to each other.

4. We are planning to go with standard white uPVC...

5. We would like to have the window sills made from PVC/plastic. I forgot to ask about this, but I guess this can easily be arranged?

Are there any other tips and/or things to consider, to watch out for? It's the first time we replace windows...

Many thanks &

Kind Regards,

Andre

FreeBear

andre_xs said: 1. We live at a busy road and one window goes to the front. The Anglian salesperson mentioned that they produce and fit the windows exactly to the cut-out in the wall, which produces better noise dampening than using a standard-made window plus expansion foam. Is there something to it, or just pointless sales-pitch?

uPVC windows are normally made 10mm or so smaller than the opening - This is because uPVC expands & contracts quite a bit with variations in temperature. One also needs to allow for the opening being out of square or slightly on the "Hu". Even Anglian make their windows smaller than the opening, so yes, just bull from the salesman... Bet he didn't mention anything about lintels either.

On older properties, the original window frames often provided structural support for the outer leaf of brickwork. Replacing with uPVC requires the installation of a steel as uPVC is not structural and failure to add the steel will eventually see the brickwork above the opening slowly collapsing. With a 1950s property, you may have sufficient/appropriate support on the outer leaf, but this needs to be confirmed during the survey & measuring. Having seen Anglain make a pigs ear on a neighbouring house, I wouldn't trust them to do the necessary checks.

Being on a busy road, I would strongly recommend that you do not have trickle vents fitted on any window fronting the road - They will allow quite a bit of traffic noise through, so defeating your reasons for going for triple glazed units (and yes, £900 extra is excessive). Although Building Regulations now mandate background ventilation when replacing windows (most installers interpret this as "trickle vents must be fitted"), there is a clause that allows for standard trickle vents to be omitted on the side facing busy roads. If you install a PIV system, you won't need trickle vents on any window.

Main recommendation - Use a local independent installer, not one of the big nationals. The cost will be much lower, and the quality of install should be streets ahead.

EssexExile

1. What complete drivel! Everyone tailor makes windows to fit the hole.
2. Good triple glazing needs the glass panes to be different thicknesses to reduce noise better. Ours aren't good, all glass the same thickness, but they do reduce noise a bit.
3. It's personal choice.
4. Personal choice, that's what we have.
5. That's normal if the existing ones are wood.

Other tips? Don't use Anglia/Everest or any other national company. Get a few quotes from local companies, speak to people for recommendations.

Mutton_Geoff

If you can afford it, timber framed windows are a vast improvement on uPVC but it all depends what your neighbours have had done for continuity of the street scene. Structural issues with plastic windows discussed above.

And always go local, anyone who uses a commission based national firm for windows, wardrobes, staircases etc deserve all they get.

grumbler

Mutton_Geoff said:

If you can afford it, timber framed windows are a vast improvement on uPVC but it all depends what your neighbours have had done for continuity of the street scene. Structural issues with plastic windows discussed above.

Ignoring possible structural issues, timber windows require mainatanance unlike uPVC. In this respect composit ones are much better, but much more expensive.

Also, for a nisy location it's worth considering triple glazing, especially for a patio door. For a sliding door make sure that the rollers are easily accessible and can be replaced.  Mine (mid 90s) was almost impossible to repair when rollers failed.

andre_xs

Thanks to all for the replies.

We have some more companies coming in to give quotes, Anglian was the only national one (and so far the only one), and I thought I should give it a go with them. I indeed found the process not too convincing, the salesperson trying to put up "pressure" to accept the quote quickly. But we don't need to go into detail about Anglian here...

Wooden/composite windows: Well, I think we'll have to take the "cheap" uPVC option just because of money. The surrounding area is not of the kind that it would make any difference... Not a bad area, but no one here would notice/compare the window style...

Thanks for making me aware of potential structural issues, that's helpful. I'll ask the local companies giving quotes about this.

And thanks for pointing out to check for how easy the rollers can be replaced - again another thing I wouldn't have thought about. Am I'd be happy to spend a little more now and save some annoyance later...

Another question came up: The bathroom window to be replaced is in the second floor, directly above a small conservatory (3mx3m), so I presume they'll need scaffolding. I guess that window fitters are prepared for this and won't charge much more because of this?

grumbler

I'm pretty sure a window can usually be fitted from inside.

FreeBear

andre_xs said: Another question came up: The bathroom window to be replaced is in the second floor, directly above a small conservatory (3mx3m), so I presume they'll need scaffolding. I guess that window fitters are prepared for this and won't charge much more because of this?

Had scaffolding up when the last few windows were replaced here. Whilst it did make life a little easier, the scaffolding was not essential. The upstairs windows that I had done a couple of years back were both done off a ladder. The bulk of the work was done from inside, and it was only the finishing touches (mastic & trim) that needed ladders.

Depending on how risk averse your chosen installer is, he/she might want some form of scaffolding over the conservatory - It may be possible to hire a tower and long span platform for not a lot. Even if full blown scaffold were required, it shouldn't cost a fortune.

andre_xs

Well, I guess they can't reach the window with ladders because of the conservatory. Anglian said they'd set up a quick scaffolding for that, I'll ask the others how they'd do it. But I guess in the end it's simply the final quote what counts...

FreeBear

andre_xs said: But I guess in the end it's simply the final quote what counts...

Quality of installation is just as important. Don't get caught up in Anglian's claims that they only use A++ frames and you'll save huge amounts on energy. The frames account for very little as far as energy efficiency goes (it is the sealed unit that has the biggest impact). A well fitted B rated window will always outperform a badly fitted A++ window.

andre_xs

Thanks for this explanation. My original quote above was meant to refer to the inclusion / costing of potentially needed scaffolding, not necessarily the unit window prices.