The Mystery of the Missing NICs

clairus99

I'll try and be brief but basically, I've been playing telephone/online tennis between DWP/UC and HMRC trying to sort this one out!

any negativity and judgment on my health and working life are unlikely to be responded to, incidentally.  i don't have to justify myself, but basically, despite a chronic health condition i do my best to continue working (against medical advice to some degree, btw).

so

I have no head for finances.  I've basically been self-employed for a number of years, but not officially so until 2016 (although I didn't know about it until I got a bill from HMRC  in 2018, and then sorted everything out - that side of things, self-assessments and all that, i've no issues with).

the history....  you can skip the next two paragraphs unless it becomes pertinent!

In 2018 (i can't remember what prompted me to do it), i opened a universal credit claim.  as far as they're concerned i've been self-employed since a couple of months after that.  prior to that.... 2006-2010 i was at university and not working alongside it, as i wasn't well enough, and i had good support at home.  2010-2011ish i didn't claim, i worked occasionally and was supported by my partner.  health not great.  2011-2014 this continued, but at some point i went to claim jsa.  they told me i hadn't contributed enough towards ni, so would only get nics, and no actual money.  health being what it was, and the hassle of getting to the job centre, i eventually stopped going.  chronic disability diagnosed in 2015.  still living off my other half and working occasionally.  finally i was convinced to apply for pip, which was award in 2019.  just before that (2018) i applied for uc and was award that, plus lcwra.  i was still going to continue to do ad hoc job when i could and they were/are fine with that.  i'm always open and honest about that and they adjust payments accordingly.  

now, thanks to lord lewis (why not call him that, i'm sure it's in his future!), and in my early-mid 50s now i decided to FINALLY try and understand and sort all this pension and nic malarkey before april 2023.  turns out i have 13 years of NICs missing.  lovely helpful hmrc advised to pay the last six years at nic2 level, and then continue to pay the next 7 (perfect timing to do this).  BUT as i've been on uc since 2018, i figured there are 4ish years there that they will have paid, leaving me 2 years to sort, which is fine.  i know i don't HAVE to pay anything, but i would like to, and i would like as much pension as i can get, obviously!

now.  that's where the problem starts.

hmrc tell me that they've recevied no nics from dwp/uc since march 2019.  they can't tell me why, they don't have access to that information.  "speak to universal credit"
uc/dwp "no, we don't have access to that information, speak to hmrc"

and now i'm playing telephone tennis between them as each tells me to ask the other.

initially i thought it might be something to do with the self-employment thing.  it seems to make sense, although i earn so little from it it wouldn't be worth my working at all really, especially given that i have a health condition(s) that prevent me from working regularly/reliably/full-time - i'm digressing, but honestly i earn WAY under the threshold for even paying tax..  but if that were the case, one of the (at least) 5 people i've spoken to at both dwp and hmrc would have confirmed it (one guessed it might be that, but that doesn't count unless they know for sure).  i also think there would be a record of it somewhere, and that i would have been notified, and that there would have been a record of that too.

so it seems like a mistake must have been made somewhere by a usually trusty computer or a tired human being in a back office.  these things happen, and i'm very forgiving.  

i just want to sort it out and pay what i, "owe".  if i owe them the full six years, so be it.  at NIC2 level that's over £800 though.  so if it should have been covered by DWP (or even part of it), then i'd like that applied. 

i don't know what the answer is, or how to get it sorted out.  no-one at hmrc or dwp/uc i've spoken to knows either.  and they don't know where i should be contacting to get it sorted.  i'm awaiting a callback from lovely citizen's advice, but really i'm not expecting them to know either. 

so i'm asking t'internet.....  any advice?

Marcon

Try this: https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/shortforms/form/DPU_SAR_NI?_ga=2.230026460.1544670040.1621021753-1315656139.1609178084

At least that way you'll have a full and detailed record of your NI contributions and can check whether or not these tally with your expectations/whatever you are currently being told. It is surprising how often a SAR throws up discrepancies, so worth doing.

If you continue to get nowhere, a formal complaint might also be a useful next step. Try https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/complain-about-hmrc

NedS

clairus99 said:

now.  that's where the problem starts.

hmrc tell me that they've recevied no nics from dwp/uc since march 2019.  they can't tell me why, they don't have access to that information.  "speak to universal credit"
uc/dwp "no, we don't have access to that information, speak to hmrc"

and now i'm playing telephone tennis between them as each tells me to ask the other.

This is a known issue with UC. They are working on a fix and you shouldn't need to take any action. UC assure us the missing NI credits will be credited before you reach state pension age.

For information, DWP are responsible for notifying HMRC that you are entitled to a credit, and HMRC will credit your NI record accordingly. It appears the automated process whereby DWP notify HMRC has broken down for some UC claimants, and DWP are working on a fix. This is most definitely a DWP issue - HMRC are the innocent party here as they can only act on the information given to them and DWP have failed to provide the correct information.

Some have raised the issue with their MP and had some success, whereas others have been fobbed off with the stock answer that they are working on a fix, prioritising those closest to state pension age, and hence potentially affected first.

clairus99

cab got back to me, and i'm going to follow their advice in lieu of better advice.  just in case it helps anyone else - they've told me to raise a complaint (via the journal but there are other ways) that i have not been kept properly informed and then keep pushing that upwards until i get a satisfactory response.  seems like a good idea.