I paid a roofer in cash to fix my roof but he never came back to finish the work!

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Jon2022 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP can you confirm, you say the workers were there for 3 days changing the membrane, so are you saying they took all the tiles off and refitted the originals (with 10 replaced for new)?

3 hours not 3 days! Yes they took the tiles off on one side, put down the membrane and replaced the old tiles and changed a total of 10 with new tiles. He said the rest of the tiles were in good condition and did not need changing (despite him telling me that the whole side need changing following his initial inspection). The front of the roof still requires work that hasn't been finished.

Apologies I misread that as a couple of guys for 3 days.

The consumer rights answer would be a refund of what was paid minus what was done but I don't think that answer will help much.

If you search the company name on the Companies House link above it will show you who the director is, you can click their name and see the companies they've been associated with in the past. If there's a long list of dissolved companies then chances are the money is gone I'm afraid. 

It would only cost a stamp to send a letter before action so it can't hurt but it will cost £205 to start the small claims process and you have to decide how much you're willing to spend to chase this, 5 grand is a lot but if there's no prospect of getting it back then it's just throwing good money after bad. 

A Limited Company means no personal liability for this kind of thing* so if the van is on finance and the money in the bank goes there's possibly not many assets the company own. Normally you can look at the filing history and see the assets at the end of the last year but if registered in Jan 2022 I think there's 10 months to file accounts so you could be waiting up until Nov 2023 to look at any accounts that get filed, however you do have 6 years to make a claim. 

*I assume there would be liability for any criminal element but even if that happened I don't see that helps you get the money back

Not a pleasant predicament and I wish you the best of luck  

diystarter7

Jon2022 said:

diystarter7 said:

too late now but for anyone reading this. Any outfit that gives you a so-called quote or estimate, as it if it inc vat/everything and get it in writing especially a quote.   I learned the hard way when i was young about 22 and those days, well for me I was not as well informed as 22 year olds today - got the brakes changed on my Audi and as i went to pay the agreed price it was as stated I asked the ........ does not inc vat it said not - i said buy it was a "quote" and the low life replied 'we dont get the vat, mate.'  This outfit had been recommended by a couple of women that worked in the same office as me and I thought never again. The warnings were there as i waited this bloke was having his car repaired and it was a hot day and those waiting were enjoying the sun and they we shouting and making threats to burn his car etc/


Ive paid in cash in the past for various reasons but I have never and never would pay anyone upfront. The times I paid before the job is completed is when items arrived out our address. Even then if its tiles/flooring stuff or worse block paving etc - they get it cheap or its stolen and you pay them good money and the /// off.


The only good bit for your op is that the ??? is actually registered as a limited co I thought it was a lie when i read your OP.  They do lie and i never call anyone from a flier.  Sadly, he is going to play you and is about to fold the ltd co within a couple of weeks. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.


PS - if your house is insured I think you need to tell them re any major works I read somewhere but not sure if this included the roof. Having said that I've never told them. However, your roof is not as secure it should be, so if there is a storm/etc as only ten tiles on the roof, possibly easier to flood/etc. But you decide
Good luck

Thank you. Just to clarify he's changed ten tiles but the other old tiles are still in place. 

Ok, thanks for that. Thankfully roof is good.

diystarter7

Flight3287462 said:

OP call him up from another phone, tell him you have recorded his call and if you don't get your money back you will be reporting him to HMRC.

What you do after that is up to you.

Hi
Report him for what, asking for payment in cash? That is not against the law and OP has no recorded evidence.
You can pay anyone in cash if they accept that and it's only when they don't declare income if they are supposed to is against the rules.

I don't see this ending well for the OP, but I hope I'm wrong.

macman

Jon2022 said:

user1977 said:

Jon2022 said:

user1977 said:

If he's trading as a limited company then your claim is against the company (how long has that existed?).

Though if you have only been waiting for 3 days then I think you may be being premature about escalating it at this stage, it's pretty standard (if annoying) for tradespeople to be juggling multiple jobs.

Sorry forgot to say the company was registered on Jan 22. How do I go about claiming against the company? 

Send a letter before action to their registered office, and if that doesn't work, start a small claim. Though bear in mind you may have difficulty identifying any company assets, so getting a judgment won't necessarily mean being paid.

user1977 said:

Jon2022 said:

user1977 said:

If he's trading as a limited company then your claim is against the company (how long has that existed?).

Though if you have only been waiting for 3 days then I think you may be being premature about escalating it at this stage, it's pretty standard (if annoying) for tradespeople to be juggling multiple jobs.

Sorry forgot to say the company was registered on Jan 22. How do I go about claiming against the company? 

Send a letter before action to their registered office, and if that doesn't work, start a small claim. Though bear in mind you may have difficulty identifying any company assets, so getting a judgment won't necessarily mean being paid.

Thanks. I do have a payment receipt (on the receipt he mention 'non-taxable item') and a '15 year guarantee' document that he gave me (probably not worth the paper it's written on).
Do you think sending a letter to the registered address would help given it goes to him and he doesn't see to care given the absence of response to calls or texts?

Also given I have to pay a fee to go to small claims court, do I realistically have a chance of recouping anything back?  

Failure to send an LBA will be a negative point against you in court, so, yes, you should do this. Five minutes of your time.
The 15 year warranty will indeed be worthless, especially since you only have half a roof. 
Just bear in mind that winning a CCJ does not get you your money back. He may have no assets to recover in his ltd company.

Flight3287462

diystarter7 said:

Flight3287462 said:

OP call him up from another phone, tell him you have recorded his call and if you don't get your money back you will be reporting him to HMRC.

What you do after that is up to you.

Hi
Report him for what, asking for payment in cash? That is not against the law and OP has no recorded evidence.
You can pay anyone in cash if they accept that and it's only when they don't declare income if they are supposed to is against the rules.

I don't see this ending well for the OP, but I hope I'm wrong.

Here you go

user1977

Flight3287462 said:

diystarter7 said:

Flight3287462 said:

OP call him up from another phone, tell him you have recorded his call and if you don't get your money back you will be reporting him to HMRC.

What you do after that is up to you.

Hi
Report him for what, asking for payment in cash? That is not against the law and OP has no recorded evidence.
You can pay anyone in cash if they accept that and it's only when they don't declare income if they are supposed to is against the rules.

I don't see this ending well for the OP, but I hope I'm wrong.

Here you go

Even so, there's probably not much risk of HMRC doing more than chasing the company for any missing tax. Would take more resources for them to unravel everything and go after the individual.

diystarter7

Flight3287462 said:

diystarter7 said:

Flight3287462 said:

OP call him up from another phone, tell him you have recorded his call and if you don't get your money back you will be reporting him to HMRC.

What you do after that is up to you.

Hi
Report him for what, asking for payment in cash? That is not against the law and OP has no recorded evidence.
You can pay anyone in cash if they accept that and it's only when they don't declare income if they are supposed to is against the rules.

I don't see this ending well for the OP, but I hope I'm wrong.

Here you go

Thank you I misread that bit. However, I doubt the HMRX will do anything as they only appear to be after genuine people who make mistakes and forget but fair enoungh

Sadly, I do fear the "ltd" outfit will go bust soon and OP let out of pocket.
Thanks

Jon2022

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Jon2022 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP can you confirm, you say the workers were there for 3 days changing the membrane, so are you saying they took all the tiles off and refitted the originals (with 10 replaced for new)?

3 hours not 3 days! Yes they took the tiles off on one side, put down the membrane and replaced the old tiles and changed a total of 10 with new tiles. He said the rest of the tiles were in good condition and did not need changing (despite him telling me that the whole side need changing following his initial inspection). The front of the roof still requires work that hasn't been finished.

Apologies I misread that as a couple of guys for 3 days.

The consumer rights answer would be a refund of what was paid minus what was done but I don't think that answer will help much.

If you search the company name on the Companies House link above it will show you who the director is, you can click their name and see the companies they've been associated with in the past. If there's a long list of dissolved companies then chances are the money is gone I'm afraid. 

It would only cost a stamp to send a letter before action so it can't hurt but it will cost £205 to start the small claims process and you have to decide how much you're willing to spend to chase this, 5 grand is a lot but if there's no prospect of getting it back then it's just throwing good money after bad. 

A Limited Company means no personal liability for this kind of thing* so if the van is on finance and the money in the bank goes there's possibly not many assets the company own. Normally you can look at the filing history and see the assets at the end of the last year but if registered in Jan 2022 I think there's 10 months to file accounts so you could be waiting up until Nov 2023 to look at any accounts that get filed, however you do have 6 years to make a claim. 

*I assume there would be liability for any criminal element but even if that happened I don't see that helps you get the money back

Not a pleasant predicament and I wish you the best of luck  

When I click on his name on companyhouse website there are no other companies he's associated with. It is strange though that he told me he was 32 but his DOB implies he's 29. He even lied about that! When I search his name in google, there is another roofing company that is owned by someone of the same name but different DOB and address so I suspect this may just be coincidence. Having said that his surname is quite unique and according to forebears has an incidence of only about 400 people... It is possible two happen to a roofer I guess. 

Thanks for the advice. I will send a letter to the company. Shall I mention in the letter that I have evidence that he is attempting tax avoidance or shall I not bother with this bit?

Jon2022

diystarter7 said:

Flight3287462 said:

OP call him up from another phone, tell him you have recorded his call and if you don't get your money back you will be reporting him to HMRC.

What you do after that is up to you.

Hi
Report him for what, asking for payment in cash? That is not against the law and OP has no recorded evidence.
You can pay anyone in cash if they accept that and it's only when they don't declare income if they are supposed to is against the rules.

I don't see this ending well for the OP, but I hope I'm wrong.

I understand it is not illegal to accept payment in cash but accepting payment in cash for the sole reason of tax avoidance is illegal. He send me a whatsapp message saying that he will add 20% VAT if paid by bank transfer. This can only mean one thing - he won't be declaring this to HMRC. Also the invoice he send me states "non-taxable item" whatever that means.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Jon2022 said:

 Shall I mention in the letter that I have evidence that he is attempting tax avoidance or shall I not bother with this bit?

No I wouldn't mention this as it implies you wouldn't report him if he sorts this out which is effectively blackmail.

Some may believe in an eye for an eye, others two wrongs don't make a right, I'm not really here for morals and only say the above because I don't think it's a smart thing to do