Lligwy Beach, Anglesey. Recent info re signs, anyone?

Sisyphean_Task

Coupon-mad said:

Exactly. How about reporting this clearly to your MP and Trading Standards?

At Lligwy beach on Parkopedia in the reviews the 2 most recent PCN's were in Jan, both thought the sign meant parking was free (no surprise there). One of them said the council wasn't interested and were now doing a SIP appeal.

Maybe if more people try they might do something?

Online form at https://www.anglesey.gov.wales/en/Residents/Consumer-advice/Trading-standards-guidance.aspx
Trading Standards Isle of Anglesey County Council Council Offices Llangefni Anglesey LL77 7TW
Tel: 08082231133

(Phone number edited because after trying Anglesey Council they directed me to a national number, where I raised a complaint about SIP for Trading Standards to look into)

Re MP Virginia Crosbie, she can only act for her constituents. Contact details:

Ynys Mon Office, 19 Stanley Street, Holyhead, Ynys Mon LL65 1HG
virginia.crosbie.mp@parliament.uk
01407 644 645

Sisyphean_Task

Sorry for the long post but it's intended as a bit of help if anybody intends to complain or goes to court. Plus if it stops just one disbled blue badge holder receiving a PCN it was worth it.

This all relates to what I class as the Main Lligwy Car Park, not the one further across the dunes accessed by a road down from Brynrefail. There are some words CAPITALISED, these relate to one of my photos. All text and photos relate to March 2023 but obviously things could have changed later. Hopefully things will change because the way things are now I think it’s certain blue badge holders will get PCNs.

1) The Blue Badge PCN

Isle of Anglesey Council car parks are free for people who display blue badges. This car park is private land. When you enter the car park, ahead to the right is the entrance to the beach, down a concrete slope to the right of the black bins. Disabled blue badge holders will be drawn to that AREA because it’s less distance to walk to the beach.

It's a very unfortunate coincidence that on the left of that AREA there is a COASTGUARD sign attached to the top of a SIP parking sign. It’s another very unfortunate coincidence that the sign has “Isle of Anglesey Council” at the bottom of it., directly above the SIP parking sign. If Blue badge holders see the COUNCIL bit they could be led to believe the car park is council owned and free for them.

On close up of the sign they will see a blue badge logo with the words:

"Vehicles in disabled bays must have a valid disabled badge on display in the windscreen in compliance with the bullet points above etc."

When a disabled blue badge holder gets their PCN in the post they may well wonder, what was the point of me being asked to display my blue badge, if it wasn’t free? A blue badge logo and the same wording are on several signs around the edge of the car park. The only one with a coastguard sign on top, is the one near the beach access AREA.

Re the “disabled bays” mentioned on the sign. I have attached a PLAN of the car park. This is a sign near the parking meters. There are currently no disabled parking bays on that plan. The whole car park is unsurfaced see earlier referenced photos and my LONG SHOT.

2) Welsh Language

All the SIP signs are generic in nature and don’t specifically relate to this car park. Another clue about that, is that the car park is in Wales and the signs are only in English. All council car parks also have instructions in the Welsh language. Could that be a problem for Welsh speaking people who received a PCN?

3) The Overstay PCN

The car park holds 140 cars that head toward the exit from 3 channels, largely due to the unsurfaced nature of the car park and a ridge in two places. On leaving the car park the exit is only single vehicle width. That is clearly shown on the PCN photos of your car. You can see the camera on a pole that takes them on my EXIT photo. Obviously when it's busy you would have to queue to get to the exit but then if a car is also entering, people exiting have to let it enter first or it’s a head on collision. The Parkopedia reviews below include someone who received a PCN for an overstay of 1 minute 23 seconds! Who knows? They may have had to queue? A request for a log of the entry and exit times might support that.

4) Reviews

There are lots of negative reviews about this car park at Parkopedia and in the general Trip Advisor reviews about Lligwy Beach.

https://en.parkopedia.co.uk/parking/carpark/lligwy_beach/ll72/moelfre/?

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g552028-d1955837-Reviews-Traeth_Lligwy-Moelfre_Anglesey_North_Wales_Wales.html 

If anybody has won an appeal or a civil court case about a PCN from the car park, can they please mention it in here?

As posted earlier I have received a PCN for what I believe was a misleading OFF PEAK sign in February, that led me to believe the car park was free.

Sisyphean_Task

Coupon-mad said:

What an appalling sign that second picture shows.

The IPC should be ashamed, but they won't be, IMHO.  Anything goes with IPC AOS member signs once given the nod online from the process that IPC like to call 'auditing signage'.

No Judge would accept that as a contract even to pay a fee in 'off-peak' months, let alone £100 parking charge, which that sign is silent about.

And you would not seek out further signs for t&cs, being satisfied from the entrance that you were within free parking winter months.

You were correct of course. A complaint to SIP and one to the IPC have been a waste of time. In the SIP reply they state "as the off peak tariff had been covered up, the prices shown must be paid as there is not indication that parking is free". That's ridiculous basing it on what the sign doesn't say. The words "Off Peak" are displayed in what was off peak season but with no tariff - that is an indication parking was free!

Surely that sign would be laughed out of court, if they have the nerve to go that far? They should have to pay me compensation for the time and money it's going to cost.

Coupon-mad

Yes, the law is on your side.

Where signs or terms are ambiguous, no further interpretation by the court is needed and the meaning that most favours the Consumer must prevail.

Consumer Rights Act 2015 'ambiguous terms'.

KeithP

...and here are the actual words...
 
Section 69 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015...

69 Contract terms that may have different meanings
(1) If a term in a consumer contract, or a consumer notice, could have different meanings, the meaning that is most favourable to the consumer is to prevail.

Le_Kirk

Known in legalese as Contra Proferentem.

Sisyphean_Task

SIP lost a case at Lligwy Beach because the PCN (not parking signs) weren't bilingual. The judge ruled all PCNs in Wales have to be bilingual.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65865223

Coupon-mad

One small claim doesn't affect any others.  They all turn on their own facts but this has happened before:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61409004

Not a precedent - interesting though.  It was posted earlier, in the dedicated news articles thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80103691/#Comment_80103691

Sisyphean_Task

OK thanks.

Edit because I realisd both cases were the same! 

 This bit still stands for info

At Lligwy SIP use generic English signs that don't apply to that car park (see my photo above). The signs have a blue badge logo and instructs disabled drivers to display a blue badge in their windscreen and park in the disabled bays. When I was last there in March, the car park was still unsurfaced with no disabled bays! People who display their badge without paying get a PCN.