Lligwy Beach, Anglesey. Recent info re signs, anyone?

Trainerman

Trying to help a relative who has picked up a PCN at Lligwy beach, Anglesey. There does not seem much on here about the place, and I have searched images on Google and used Google Maps/streetview but cannot come up with much in the way of images of signs.

I can find non to show the forming of a contract, and non to inform of the use of ANPR. So I am here in the hope that someone has good, recent images of the signs there and can help me out please. Obviously, I am looking at a poor signage defence, but could do with knowing for sure what is there.

Also, as he cannot yet show me his PCN ( from October), can anyone fill me in on whether SiP parking are usually PoFA compliant?

Thanks everyone

Coupon-mad

SIP usually are and usually file their own court claims (no solicitor).  Sorry can't help re photos.

Trainerman

Just to update, and perhaps help others. Parkopedia confirms these prices as still current, and also has reviews complaining that they are still charging  'summer' at end Oct/early Nov and probably still are.

Be warned, you could well get caught paying £2.00 for a two hour timed ticket instead of getting 12 hours. Followed, of course, by the ANPR triggered PCN.

My relative paid £2.00, did not notice that the ticket gave  two hours instead of longer and of course received a PCN. This will be the focus of our appeal(s) which I know will not work BUT will show willing for the court case. Will try Plan A too, of course.

Coupon-mad

Looks like a scam to me. Quelle surprise.

Sisyphean_Task

Trainerman said:

Just to update, and perhaps help others. Parkopedia confirms these prices as still current, and also has reviews complaining that they are still charging  'summer' at end Oct/early Nov and probably still are.

Be warned, you could well get caught paying £2.00 for a two hour timed ticket instead of getting 12 hours. Followed, of course, by the ANPR triggered PCN.

My relative paid £2.00, did not notice that the ticket gave  two hours instead of longer and of course received a PCN. This will be the focus of our appeal(s) which I know will not work BUT will show willing for the court case. Will try Plan A too, of course.

How did your appeal go?

I know of several people who have received PCN's in Jan & Feb because they thought the Lligwy Beach car park was free, partly because the cafe was closed. I can also understand why because council owned car parks nearby at Traeth Bychan & Benllech are free and the Lligwy sign is not clear in my opinion. They wiped the Off Peak side of the board and only had prices on the Peak side that said "March to". It looks like a very nasty trap because you have to look all the way across the board to see "End Feb" but that has no prices below it. I think to be classed as clear signage it should state "March to Feb" together above the relevant charges. Obviously glancing at the board as you drive past you would obviously see the Off Peak side empty and definitely think it was free.

Attached are 2 photos, one taken in September 2022 that has prices on both sides of the board and another taken Feb 2023 that shows the misleading sign. The new sign put up now, again has prices below on both Peak and Off Peak but I haven't got a photo yet. I will add it later, unless someone else posts one before.

If anyone has a PCN and appeals it can you please let me know the outcome? Or if unsuccessful, if you try IPC on appeal

https://www.theipc.info/ 

Trainerman

Thank you very much. That really is very unclear and sneaky, in the second one. The 'contravention' was on 30th October, so that September one could be very useful if it goes any further. Relative has not bothered with IPC. I will keep you posted if I hear any more. Thanks again

Coupon-mad

What an appalling sign that second picture shows.

The IPC should be ashamed, but they won't be, IMHO.  Anything goes with IPC AOS member signs once given the nod online from the process that IPC like to call 'auditing signage'.

No Judge would accept that as a contract even to pay a fee in 'off-peak' months, let alone £100 parking charge, which that sign is silent about.

And you would not seek out further signs for t&cs, being satisfied from the entrance that you were within free parking winter months.

B789

Where is the term that states you are entering into a contract and that you will become liable for a charge of £100 (or whatever)?

KeithP

I can't work out the relevance of the words in the smallest font on that sign.

Why are they stating...
"Management of this pay and display car park/road is the responsibility of SIP Car Parks Limited, however all enforcement actions are the responsibility of SIP Parking Limited. Please see their signage within the car park/road for terms and conditions"

Two parking companies mentioned there -
1) SIP Car Parks Limited - Company number 11244191
2) SIP Parking Limited - Company number 06752126

However, although not easy to read on that image of the sign, the company number on the sign is neither of those...

Sisyphean_Task

Coupon-mad said:

What an appalling sign that second picture shows.

The IPC should be ashamed, but they won't be, IMHO.  Anything goes with IPC AOS member signs once given the nod online from the process that IPC like to call 'auditing signage'.

No Judge would accept that as a contract even to pay a fee in 'off-peak' months, let alone £100 parking charge, which that sign is silent about.

And you would not seek out further signs for t&cs, being satisfied from the entrance that you were within free parking winter months.

Re the difference between the two signs, in September when it's Peak the board has prices on both the Peak and Off Peak side. Then in Off Peak season they removed the prices only on the Off Peak side instead of the Peak side! In my mind it's a deliberate trap to catch people driving into the car park looking at the Off Peak side for prices thinking "No prices Off Peak.... it's free". Particularly as people are already conditioned to free car parking from the free seasonal council car parks close by at Traeth Bychan & Benllech.

Why would you not remove the Peak prices when Off Peak kicks in?

Coupon-mad

Exactly. How about reporting this clearly to your MP and Trading Standards?