GroupNexus - County Oak Retail - Court Claim stage

fivestarsamz

Hello guys, I am here for your guys help. Well i think KeithP is the one that knows a lot about this one... I have done some research but confused about the dates in which i should do it. But anyway, here is a brief explanation:

RK received county court claim letter for a PCN occured in 05/11/2022. (they have another one now with the same company at the same place on August 2022 but that for another thread.)
RK never received/acknowledge the original fines, i.e. Did not know about this fine until this county court letter. 
The driver overstayed in a 3 hour free car park by over 22 minutes as they were visiting a friend at costa. 
Date of issue is 08/11/2022. So I believe I have to AoS on Tuesday.... I can just do it on Wednesday 16th Nov or Thursday? 

I am sending a SAR anyway to Group nexus. 

For my defense:

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question but was not the driver. Liability does not fall with the RK. 

3. The defendant did not know about this PCN as they did not read any letters or have any acknowledgment of the PCN until the county court claim letter was received. The driver was at Costa Coffee at the retail park meeting with friends. The driver was unaware that the time allowed to use the car park was limited to 3 hours only. The signs were not clear enough to make the driver informed about the time restriction. 

Is this good? I feel like this isn't good enough. The RK really does not want to go to court as they get anxiety so I am hoping this would get canceled before it gets to the hearing. They are willing to pay the £270 but I know they have very difficult financial situation right now so I am trying to help them as much as i can. 

Coupon-mad

What do you mean there is another claim? Already defended and going through the courts?

If so then you need to add to this defence the usual wording about two claims, that you will find when you search the forum for Cause of action estoppel Henderson.

fivestarsamz

Coupon-mad said:

What do you mean there is another claim? Already defended and going through the courts?

If so then you need to add to this defence the usual wording about two claims, that you will find when you search the forum for Cause of action estoppel Henderson.

Not another claim yet. its another PCN but this one was in August 2022. Its not gone through court or anything. So last letter was to pay £100 within 14 days or it will go in debt recovery stage and price will increase. RK checked online and the price is now £170. The RK sent an appeal but sent it after the 14 days. Have not got a response yet.

Coupon-mad

There is no 14 day limit on appeals.

But OK - no need to mention the new one in the defence for the old one.

fivestarsamz

Okay, so AOS submitted. Still waiting for groupnexus to respond on the SAR. Shall I wait a bit longer to submit my defense because I believe I am ready to send a defense?

Here is my defense anyway:
There is not much I have changed, I have slightly changed the points 2. and 3 below. but other than that, I used the template on the newbie post as is. 

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question but liability is denied. The Defendant was NOT the Driver of the vehicle.

3. The defendant did not know about this PCN as they did not read any letters or have any acknowledgment of the PCN until the county court claim letter was received. The driver was at Costa Coffee at the retail park meeting with friends. The driver was unaware that the time allowed to use the car park was limited to a ‘fixed’ time and that it was ‘overstayed’. The signs were not clear enough to make the driver informed about the time restriction. 

This is all I am really adding, the rest of the defense is from the template. Is the defense good enough? Is there anything more I can point out or emphasize? Maybe something more with keepers' liability? 


If the defense is good enough, I believe I can electronically sign and date the defense, make it into PDF, and send it to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk. I no longer need to copy the claimants in because CCBC will do it themselves, I just need to make sure I get the acknowledgment email. And then I wait until I get the CCBC to send my own directions questionnaire. Correct me if I am wrong.

KeithP

fivestarsamz said:

RK received county court claim letter... 

Date of issue is 08/11/2022. So I believe I have to AoS on Tuesday.... I can just do it on Wednesday 16th Nov or Thursday? 

I am going to assume you filed an Acknowledgment of Service sometime after 11th November. Please confirm the date of AoS filing.

With a Claim Issue Date of 8th November, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 12th December 2022 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence and it is good to see you are not leaving it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Coupon-mad

"Did not read any letters" sounds bad on you!

fivestarsamz

KeithP said:

fivestarsamz said:

RK received county court claim letter... 

Date of issue is 08/11/2022. So I believe I have to AoS on Tuesday.... I can just do it on Wednesday 16th Nov or Thursday? 

I am going to assume you filed an Acknowledgment of Service sometime after 11th November. Please confirm the date of AoS filing.

With a Claim Issue Date of 8th November, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 12th December 2022 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence and it is good to see you are not leaving it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

AoS was filed on 21/11/2022 Monday. 

Okay, I guess I can wait a little bit longer to see if I get a response from the SAR email from Group Nexus before I file the defense. The defense (which is completed for now), I have right now is literally the template by Coupon-mad and points 2 and 3 mentioned here. I can't think of anything more to put on at the moment. 

I have used the second post of the newbies thread to help me up to here, and I must say, I would be SO SO lost without it! So thank you!  

Coupon-mad said:

"Did not read any letters" sounds bad on you!

Fixed that below: 
3. The defendant did not know about this PCN as they did not have any acknowledgment of the PCN until the county court claim letter was received. The driver was at Costa Coffee at the retail park meeting with friends. The driver was unaware that the time allowed to use the car park was limited to a ‘fixed’ time and that it was ‘overstayed’. The signs were not clear enough to make the driver informed about the time restriction. 

KeithP

3. The defendant did not know about this PCN as they did not have any acknowledgment of the PCN until the county court claim letter was received. 

That doesn't read right.

It looks like you are saying "The defendant did not know about this PCN until the county court claim letter was received" which isn't true.

I don't even know what the phrase "as they did not have any acknowledgment of the PCN" means.

You must tell the truth in anything you say to the court.

Before using an initialisation, you should write the term in full the first time.
So "The defendant did not know about this PCN..." 
becomes "The defendant did not know about this Parking Charge Notice('PCN')..."

fivestarsamz

KeithP said:

3. The defendant did not know about this PCN as they did not have any acknowledgment of the PCN until the county court claim letter was received. 

That doesn't read right.

It looks like you are saying "The defendant did not know about this PCN until the county court claim letter was received" which isn't true.

I don't even know what the phrase "as they did not have any acknowledgment of the PCN" means.

You must tell the truth in anything you say to the court.

Before using an initialisation, you should write the term in full the first time.
So "The defendant did not know about this PCN..." 
becomes "The defendant did not know about this Parking Charge Notice('PCN')..."

But it is true that the defendant did not know about this PCN until they received the county court claim letter. The county court letter was the first time the defendant came to know that this PCN existed. Before that, she had no idea this PCN existed. She knew about a different PCN which she initially thought related to this county court letter but she later realised that this one was a completely different PCN to the one she knew about. Am i making sense?

How about this: 
3. The defendant did not know about this Penalty Charge Notice ('PCN') until the county court claim letter was received. No correspondence or letters were received by the defendant prior to the county court claim letter regarding this PCN. The driver was at Costa Coffee at the retail park meeting with friends. The driver was unaware that the time allowed to use the car park was limited to a ‘fixed’ time and that it was ‘overstayed’. The signs were not clear enough to make the driver informed about the time restriction. 

KeithP

fivestarsamz said:

KeithP said:

3. The defendant did not know about this PCN as they did not have any acknowledgment of the PCN until the county court claim letter was received. 

That doesn't read right.

It looks like you are saying "The defendant did not know about this PCN until the county court claim letter was received" which isn't true.

I don't even know what the phrase "as they did not have any acknowledgment of the PCN" means.

You must tell the truth in anything you say to the court.

Before using an initialisation, you should write the term in full the first time.
So "The defendant did not know about this PCN..." 
becomes "The defendant did not know about this Parking Charge Notice('PCN')..."

But it is true that the defendant did not know about this PCN until they received the county court claim letter. 

OK, but isn't that because you failed to read mail which was correctly addressed and delivered to you?
 I'm not sure how that excuse for your inaction is going to be received.