My smart reader has saved me a lot of money BUT...

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OpolE
OpolE Posts: 95 Forumite
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(I do see people moan about them charging tonnes more...)

I'm on economy 7 and I turn on my immersion heater for 1 hour a night to give 2-3 showers per day. It costs £0.17 to do this. Fantastic in my opinion.

The clocks moved back an hour and I noticed in the morning at 7am it was charging me the day rate.

Usually my day rate kicks in at 8:40am and night rate kicks in 11:45pm

Now I'm !!!!!! off:

1. I noticed at 2:30am it was charging me day rate a couple of times last month so I approached EDF and they are getting their IT team to look into it.... How can I prove anything after time goes on that there's a discrepancy.
2. Now I've noticed they weren't adhering to the day/night rate times this week.

I messaged them again and they gave me the rate timings and told me they can't adhere to the UK time changes. That's just shocking as my night rate still starts at 11:45 and I stay up till about 1am to turn off with no issues (FOR NOW). 

I'm worried about my storage heaters when I turn them on soon not adhering to what the smartmeter says and that's going to cost alot. I feel like EDF is pre-consciously screwing over people now.

I asked for a complaint anyway and it took 2 times to ask. The person offered £15 concession and I said I want to hear from complaints first and they shut me down saying there isn't really a complaints department and this is far as it goes. So I told the advisor how is anything going to change better for the consumer and give my £15 now and goodbye.

This is terrible for the customer.


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  • Robin9
    Robin9 Posts: 12,132 Forumite
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    Are you getting your info from the IHD toy in your kitchen  ?     It's quite possible that the rates in that have not been updated .

    What really matters is the Smart meter itself in the garage or outdoor meter  box.   Do your storage heaters switch on when the meter changes to night rate?
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  • Swipe
    Swipe Posts: 5,109 Forumite
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    Are your storage heaters on a separate off peak circuit? If so, then they can never use peak rate and you have nothing to worry about. It might be worth getting a timer installed for your water immersion heater and set it to come on for an hour at around 5am. That way you shouldn't fall foul of any daylight savings time changes.  
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 13,822 Forumite
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    OpolE said:
    I'm on economy 7 ... Usually my day rate kicks in at 8:40am and night rate kicks in 11:45pm
    Economy 7 gives you seven hours a day of night-rate electricity. If it was night rate from 2345 to 0840 continuously, that's 8 hours and 55 minutes - so you can expect there to be a gap of 1 hour 55 minutes somewhere in that period.
    I noticed at 2:30am it was charging me day rate a couple of times last month so I approached EDF and they are getting their IT team to look into it.... How can I prove anything after time goes on that there's a discrepancy.
    0230 could well be witihn that 1h55m gap.
    The clocks moved back an hour and I noticed in the morning at 7am it was charging me the day rate.
    E7 hours don't usually change with the clocks (although it's possible for a smart meter to be set so they do).
    I'm worried about my storage heaters when I turn them on soon not adhering to what the smartmeter says and that's going to cost alot. I feel like EDF is pre-consciously screwing over people now.
    Your storage heaters should, if they've been installed in the conventional manner, be connected to a separate set of electrical circuits that are only live when the meter is on E7 cheap rate times. If this is the case, the exact hours of E7 are not relevant - the heaters will only receive power to heat up during E7 hours.
    Can you post a photo of your smart meter and the associated wiring, a bit like the photos in this thread:
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79554987/#Comment_79554987
    The photo will help us work out how your storage heaters are connected.
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  • theoretica
    theoretica Posts: 12,339 Forumite
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    OpolE said:
    (I do see people moan about them charging tonnes more...)

    I'm on economy 7 and I turn on my immersion heater for 1 hour a night to give 2-3 showers per day. It costs £0.17 to do this. Fantastic in my opinion.

    The clocks moved back an hour and I noticed in the morning at 7am it was charging me the day rate.

    Usually my day rate kicks in at 8:40am and night rate kicks in 11:45pm

    What you had previously seems off as it would be giving you 9 hours night rate, not the 7 hours of E7  - midnight to 7am seems more correct, it is at least 7 hours.
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  • Raxiel
    Raxiel Posts: 1,401 Forumite
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    I wrote something about the active hours but others have already posted.
    Short version, when I had a radio switch I had a 9 hour window of which 7 were off peak, but exactly which 7 was dependent on the DNO and demand. Since getting smart meters its been the same continuous block of 7 hours every night (half 12 to half 7 GMT)

    I wouldn't expect the supplier to switch for DST, but they should be able to confirm exactly which hours are at what rate.

    Following on from that, for your concern about point 1, are your meters set for half hourly logging? If so you could cross check the slots and their consumption against what was billed. I don't know how useful EDF's website is - Octopus let me download a csv if I want it - but you have the option of signing up for the free Bright app that can pull the info from the meter network in the same way the supplier does.
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  • macman
    macman Posts: 53,098 Forumite
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    The E7 hours are controlled by the DNO: the supplier has no way to change them.
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  • EssexHebridean
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    Not sure whereabouts in the country you are OP but here in the East of England my E7 times are 0000 GMT > 0700 GMT. In fact our meter is slightly out so ours clicks over 10 minutes after those times. This means that the summer hours are far more user-friendly for us as once the clocks change as they just have we have quite the rush between getting up in the morning and both getting showered before it clicks onto peak rate! 

    As has already been said if the heaters are on a separate circuit then you won’t have to worry about the rate they charge on as they will only be “active” on input when the night rate is active. In fact the immersion heater may well be the same, with a manual override for use on the peak rate? If so then this means the only thing you need to know the “rogue” mid-night peak hours for is timing things like appliances to run on the cheaper rate. 
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  • Scrounger
    Scrounger Posts: 1,007 Forumite
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    Swipe said:
    Are your storage heaters on a separate off peak circuit? If so, then they can never use peak rate and you have nothing to worry about. 
    Sadly, this is not always the case.

    Last winter, my smart meter was switching to peak rate register in the mornings with the storage heaters remaining on (for a further 30 minutes).

    EDF replaced the meter in the end and paid £150 compensation.

    I've no idea how widespread this type of fault is, but most customers in this situation would be completely unaware that they are being overcharged. 


    Scrounger
  • EssexHebridean
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    Did you get an explanation of how that situation came about Scrounger if indeed your heaters are wired in to only be able to take charge from the off peak circuit? I'm interested because we will likely be getting a meter change soon, and although I have no intention of accepting anything other than a 5-lead E7 specific meter, it would be interesting to hear of anything else I should be looking out for when the change happens. (Of our heaters, one has a dual feed but the charging side is only fed when the supply switches to the off peak rate and that circuit becomes live, the others have just a single feed which again only becomes "live" when the off peak kicks in, so I'm slightly confused as to how it would be possible for them to get a peak rate feed?)
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  • mmmmikey
    mmmmikey Posts: 1,677 Forumite
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    Hi - I am with EDF, have a smart meter and on an E7 tariff. The last page of my bill is a FAQ section and includes information about E7 times - in my case 00:30 to 07:30 GMT - so I know exactly when I'm getting cheap rate electricity. If you check your bill I suspect it will tell you what your cheap rate times are too.

    As far as switching night storage heaters (NSH) on and off at the right times is concerned, there are 3 common ways of doing this that I am aware of:

    1. You have a separate circuit(s) that the NSHs etc. are connected to and the meter itself switches this circuit on and off. This is the ideal and probably the most common solution and if this is what happens, things should just work without you needing to do anything.

    2. You have a separate circuit(s) with it's own central timer and this switches the NSHs etc. on and off. If this is the case, you need to make sure that the timer is set to switch everything on and off at the correct times as per the info on your bill, making sure that the timer doesn't adjust itself for daylight saving.

    3. All the NSHs and immersion heaters have their own timers to switch them on and off at the correct times, and as above those timers need to be individually set to the right times.

    As far as everything else is concerned (e.g. washing machine, tumble drier) it's just a question of being aware of the times printed on your bill and using them accordingly.

    It's perfectly within the rules for EDF to have changed your E7 times when the meter changed, but of course this should have been explained to you and you should have been given advice on timers, etc. when the meter was installed.

    Hope this helps.
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