How to sort your plates being cloned (parking fine)?

NBLondon

DanDare999 said:

The police will have access to everything on you log book and licence including a photo so no need to sweat if you don’t have them.

There's no photo on my licence...

And them being able to read what's on the V5 only tells them what car should be wearing that number plate.  Nothing about the driver.

Me having the documents to hand is the easy way to show that I am who I say I am including that I am the registered keeper of that genuine vehicle.   Charlie the Cloner can't prove that.  They could claim to be me (if it's somebody who knows me, my address, my car).  And I hope if they had no other matching ID - the officers might be suspicious.

Not essential to have the docs to hand - just suggesting an idea to make it simpler...

DanDare999

NBLondon said:

DanDare999 said:

The police will have access to everything on you log book and licence including a photo so no need to sweat if you don’t have them.

There's no photo on my licence...

And them being able to read what's on the V5 only tells them what car should be wearing that number plate.  Nothing about the driver.

Me having the documents to hand is the easy way to show that I am who I say I am including that I am the registered keeper of that genuine vehicle.   Charlie the Cloner can't prove that.  They could claim to be me (if it's somebody who knows me, my address, my car).  And I hope if they had no other matching ID - the officers might be suspicious.

Not essential to have the docs to hand - just suggesting an idea to make it simpler...

So your licence doesn't identify you and when you say the V5 says nothing about the driver then it kind of blows your theory about not needing to stop the car. 

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that Charlie has a copy of a V5 pro-porting to be for the genuine car.

Without being 100% certain the police are looking at genuine documents having a copy of your docs would only simplify things as they wouldn't have to write it down. They'd still check insurance as who says you haven't cancelled it since you copied the certificate?

NBLondon

Give over Dan - you're just arguing for the sake of it.

If Charlie Cloner can copy my docs, they might as well just steal the bloody car!  Me having them handy and being able to say - "Yes, there's a marker because the plates were cloned.  Here's the docs to show this is the original and I'm the RK with matching name and address" makes it much more likely that  I am genuine than I am a criminal who has stolen or faked the documents and cloned the car.

DanDare999 said:

So your licence doesn't identify you and when you say the V5 says nothing about the driver then it kind of blows your theory about not needing to stop the car. 

No it doesn't.  If the ANPR marker says  Plate No xxxxxxx White Ford suspected clone and the V5 says  Grey Ford and the car they are looking at is Grey then that's a good signal that they are looking at the original.  If they then check insurance and it shows OK at the same name and address as the V5 then that's another sign they are looking at the original.   They then don't need to stop unless there's another reason like driver behaviour.

If it just says Plate No xxxxxx suspected clone then checking the V5 and insurance will come up with the ones for the valid car so they do have to stop and see what the driver says.  

DanDare999

NBLondon said:

Give over Dan - you're just arguing for the sake of it.

If Charlie Cloner can copy my docs, they might as well just steal the bloody car!  Me having them handy and being able to say - "Yes, there's a marker because the plates were cloned.  Here's the docs to show this is the original and I'm the RK with matching name and address" makes it much more likely that  I am genuine than I am a criminal who has stolen or faked the documents and cloned the car.

DanDare999 said:

So your licence doesn't identify you and when you say the V5 says nothing about the driver then it kind of blows your theory about not needing to stop the car. 

No it doesn't.  If the ANPR marker says  Plate No xxxxxxx White Ford suspected clone and the V5 says  Grey Ford and the car they are looking at is Grey then that's a good signal that they are looking at the original.  If they then check insurance and it shows OK at the same name and address as the V5 then that's another sign they are looking at the original.   They then don't need to stop unless there's another reason like driver behaviour.

If it just says Plate No xxxxxx suspected clone then checking the V5 and insurance will come up with the ones for the valid car so they do have to stop and see what the driver says.  

I think you misunderstand how it works. The ANPR links to the PNC.

If AA22 ABC is a genuine white car then any report is linked to that car. A read on that plate whether a grey or white car will come back to the genuine car.

If AA22 ABC is a fake plate it will not relate to any vehicle and will be a Police Record only, with subsequent reports linked to that. 

If you wish to dispute what I've said please feel free to tell us your working knowledge and experience of the PNC. No need to tell us about ANPR as it's just the number plate reader linked to a number of databases. 

I also note you've now changed from copies to original docs. 

NBLondon

DanDare999 said:

I think you misunderstand how it works. The ANPR links to the PNC.

If AA22 ABC is a genuine white car then any report is linked to that car. A read on that plate whether a grey or white car will come back to the genuine car.

I said 2 or 3 times that I don't specifically know what the ANPR alert tells the police officer receiving it. If you knew better; the time to say so was several posts back. If it pulls the data that the genuine car is grey and they are looking at a white car that's a definite hint to stop and investigate.

DanDare999 said:

If AA22 ABC is a fake plate it will not relate to any vehicle and will be a Police Record only, with subsequent reports linked to that. 

We're discussing cloned plates remember? If the plate comes back as not valid or not found; that's always stop and investigate.

DanDare999 said:

If you wish to dispute what I've said please feel free to tell us your working knowledge and experience of the PNC. No need to tell us about ANPR as it's just the number plate reader linked to a number of databases.

I have made no claim about this. My experience is of having my plates cloned last year; sending evidence of this; getting a letter from DVLA accepting that and telling me they will put a marker on the plate and getting the tickets revoked. You know, the stuff the OP actually wanted to find out about.

DanDare999 said:

I also note you've now changed from copies to original docs. 

Nope. the word "original" is referring to the original car and not the clone.

You are the one asserting that the police can already access all the information they need.  You may be right.  They can do it before stopping the car and then see if what the driver says matches up.

All I'm suggesting to the OP is that having documentation available to back up the claim that this is the genuine car driven by it's RK makes things easier for both sides.  If Charlie Cloner is capable of faking that documentation but not capable of choosing the right colour of car - they deserve to be caught!

B0bbyEwing

While you 2 are disagreeing it'd be great if someone could comment on the DVLA issue. 
Can't believe it's really a 4-6 week wait for a sort out. Surely has to be quicker than that? 

DanDare999

NBLondon said:

DanDare999 said:

I think you misunderstand how it works. The ANPR links to the PNC.

If AA22 ABC is a genuine white car then any report is linked to that car. A read on that plate whether a grey or white car will come back to the genuine car.

I said 2 or 3 times that I don't specifically know what the ANPR alert tells the police officer receiving it. If you knew better; the time to say so was several posts back. If it pulls the data that the genuine car is grey and they are looking at a white car that's a definite hint to stop and investigate.

DanDare999 said:

If AA22 ABC is a fake plate it will not relate to any vehicle and will be a Police Record only, with subsequent reports linked to that. 

We're discussing cloned plates remember? If the plate comes back as not valid or not found; that's always stop and investigate.

DanDare999 said:

If you wish to dispute what I've said please feel free to tell us your working knowledge and experience of the PNC. No need to tell us about ANPR as it's just the number plate reader linked to a number of databases.

I have made no claim about this. My experience is of having my plates cloned last year; sending evidence of this; getting a letter from DVLA accepting that and telling me they will put a marker on the plate and getting the tickets revoked. You know, the stuff the OP actually wanted to find out about.

DanDare999 said:

I also note you've now changed from copies to original docs. 

Nope. the word "original" is referring to the original car and not the clone.

You are the one asserting that the police can already access all the information they need.  You may be right.  They can do it before stopping the car and then see if what the driver says matches up.

All I'm suggesting to the OP is that having documentation available to back up the claim that this is the genuine car driven by it's RK makes things easier for both sides.  If Charlie Cloner is capable of faking that documentation but not capable of choosing the right colour of car - they deserve to be caught!

We are so when the cloned vehicle is read by ANPR it will be read as the genuine vehicle. Have a look at Hyundai white satin pearl. If the dealer registers it as white the police will be looking for a white Hyundai. That car is going to get stopped as according to it's the clone.  

NBLondon

B0bbyEwing said:

While you 2 are disagreeing it'd be great if someone could comment on the DVLA issue. 
Can't believe it's really a 4-6 week wait for a sort out. Surely has to be quicker than that? 

It was nearer 3 weeks when I went through the rigmarole last year.

NBLondon

DanDare999 said:

We are so when the cloned vehicle is read by ANPR it will be read as the genuine vehicle. Have a look at Hyundai white satin pearl. If the dealer registers it as white the police will be looking for a white Hyundai. That car is going to get stopped as according to it's the clone.  

Yes.  If the genuine car is a shade of white and the V5 says white and the car they are observing is a shade of white then I would expect the car to be stopped.  Any other statements of the bleeding obvious you'd care to make?

And that's a good reason for the driver to be able to easily show they are not the cloner by showing documentation.

DanDare999

NBLondon said:

DanDare999 said:

We are so when the cloned vehicle is read by ANPR it will be read as the genuine vehicle. Have a look at Hyundai white satin pearl. If the dealer registers it as white the police will be looking for a white Hyundai. That car is going to get stopped as according to it's the clone.  

Yes.  If the genuine car is a shade of white and the V5 says white and the car they are observing is a shade of white then I would expect the car to be stopped.  Any other statements of the bleeding obvious you'd care to make?

And that's a good reason for the driver to be able to easily show they are not the cloner by showing documentation.

Is it bleeding obvious? White satin pearl appears grey on the colour chart, so a car in that colour could be either grey or white on the V5. Depends on whether it was registered from the order form or looking at the actual car.