Land Registry Incorrect

mrcol1000

My Grandad has asked me to help him sell his flat for him as he is going into a care home. 

He owned a cafe and in 2000 built a flat on top of it. He moved into the flat and sold the cafe but kept the freehold for the land the building is on. The cafe was converted into a flat. The bottom flat was sold to someone else in 2010. I have carried out a Land Registry to ensure there was no problems. According to Land Registry the person who owns the bottom flat also owns my Grandad's flat since 2010. Their property is given as owner address for both. I have carried out a Land Registry check on the bottom flat and both flats are on the same title number.

I have asked my Grandad what happened when he built the flat and sold the cafe but he is very confused. The person who owns the bottom flat pays him £1 a year in ground rent and they also have a shared buildings insurance policy in both their names. I have not contacted the bottom flat owner as I am unsure if it would be wise to make them aware that according to Land Registry they own both flats. 

I have contacted Land Registry pointing out the error but they have not got back to me. I do not understand why Land Registry have them as separate properties but on the same title number. It is also difficult as I have no idea what happened when the flat was built and the cafe sold. 

I just wondered if anyone had any experience of a similar situation or any idea how I can sort this out. 

Thanks in advance for anyones help. 

user1977

Is the title number you're looking at for a freehold or leasehold interest? Are there any other titles for the same building? You'd expect there to be a freehold one and at least one (possibly two) leaseholds.

propertyrental

Are you looking at the Freehold Title for the building?
Or the leasehold title for downstairs?
And /or the leasehold Title for upstairs?
How are the flats described? Might there be confusion as to which is which eg 'Flat A'/'Flat B'? Do the descriptions and Plans for each flat make clear which is which?

Has your grandad  got a copy of the actual lease(s)? If downstairs is paying £1 a year, then clearly they believe they have a lease and owe Ground rent to grandad as the freeholder.

A copy of the lease itself is likely to be held by the LR (does the Title mention "copy filed'?). If so it's available by post from the LR using form OC2 here (not to be confused with the leasehold TITLE REGISTER available online.

silvercar

Hopefully @Land_Registry can offer some guidance.

eddddy

You need to do a bit more investigation and provide a bit more info.

The most likely set-up is...

• There is a freehold title for the building (and the land it sits on) - presumably in your Grandad's name

Plus either:..

• A  )  There is a leasehold title for the downstairs flat only (not in your Grandad's name)

Or...

• B  ) There is a leasehold title for the downstairs flat (not in your Grandad's name), and a leasehold title for the upstairs flat (presumably in your Grandad's name).

Perhaps you've done this already - but just in case, you can download details of the freehold and leasehold titles mentioned above for £3 each, by starting from here:
https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

What do they say about registered owners?

movilogo

You can apply for correcting data in Land Registry. There is a process for that. You need to fill up several forms and it takes bit of time to get processed. 

user1977

movilogo said:

You can apply for correcting data in Land Registry. There is a process for that. You need to fill up several forms and it takes bit of time to get processed. 

I suspect it's much more likely that the LR isn't incorrect, and what's incorrect is grandad's memory of what happened, and/or the OP's interpretation of whatever they're looking at.

Land_Registry

silvercar said:

Hopefully @Land_Registry can offer some guidance.

I can try but would need the specifics re title number/address? 

From a general perspective you start with postal addresses and then we attach the registered information so you can get a result online when you search. 

Looking at just the addresses and the results provided means very little in cases such as this as you need to then look at the specific registered details to understand how the freehold/leasehold registers combine 

As far as your contact is concerned it’s unlikely you’d get a quick reply at present. I’d expect at least a 2 week wait. But the specific details will help me to check 

TBagpuss

OP, yur granddad can also get in touch with the solicitors whom he usedwhen he sold the downstars flat - while each firm decided for themself how long to keep old files, many firms will keep them for 15 years because of the latent damages act, soif he sold the flat in 2010 his solicitors may still have the file and be ablw to clarify what exactly was done .

mrcol1000

Thanks for everyone's replies. They really are appreciated.

According to the titles on Land Registry. The flats are registered as 6 the bottom one below and 6a my Grandads one so there shouldn't be any confusion over them. I have got the title register for both and they both show as being owned by the owner of the bottom flat and No 6 is given as their registered address for both. They are also both registered as leaseholds. They both show the same title number but are two separate titles. They both say they were sold in 2010 for the same price. 

They both also mention my Grandad under the Property Register as parties under which the land is held. The other person mentioned is whom is originally sold  the cafe to and who converted it into a flat. 

I have searched on Land Registry webiste under the postcode and then the whole road and there does not appear to be any listing for the freehold, only the two flats as leaseholds.  

We are still working through my Grandads paperwork. It was quite chaotic. We have prioritised his bank and savings so the council can do financial assessment as we never expected there to be any problems with the flat. We don't live nearby and I am the only person able/willing to sort it out so won't be able to go through the rest of his paperwork for a few weeks to see if there is a lease agreement.    

Land_Registry

As mentioned the search results don’t confirm matters for you. The register(s) are the key information. 

In this case, as explained in a DM reply, only the ground floor lease is registered. Neither the other flat or freehold are registered. Hopefully his proof of ownership (deeds) can be found within the paperwork you refer to