Who can define my garden boundary?

ijm2010

Hi all, I purchased a property in 2019 and my new neighbours this year. We have had nothing but issues with the boundaries of the garden. The back garden extends to about 0.5 acre and is around 400ft long, on one of the boarders there is an ongoing dispute with the neighbour over where the boundary lies. There is Wooden 6ft fence on the disputed side for only the first 80ft or so and then a flimsy chicken wire fence for the remaining 120ft (my garden is approx double the length of my neighbours)
My title deeds/plans show my left and right boundaries are parallel. My neighbours deeds/plans (which I pulled a copy of) show my garden narrows the further you get away from the house until the end of my neighbours garden. At this point the difference is about 2 fence panels wide, around 12ft. This has resulted in an area of land that is shown as owned on both our deeds/plans, it doesn't sound like a lot but this triangle of land is roughly 1200 sqft., due to the length of the gardens.
My neighbours plans are dated 1977 and mine are dated 2014. There are also inaccuracies in my neighbours deeds (such as neighbouring houses that have been built since 1977, and boundary layouts, that have changed in the last 40 years) that appear to be corrected in mine. Mine also appear to accurately reflect what is on the OS maps of the area.
In summary I am looking for someone who can tell me who's deeds/plans are correct? Can anybody help?

Regards

silvercar

Try posting on the Land Registry thread here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79611928#Comment_79611928

theoretica

What is shown on the maps which show both your properties?  A single line or overlapping boundaries?

eg: https://www.landregistry-uk.com/map-search 

ijm2010

theoretica said:

What is shown on the maps which show both your properties?  A single line or overlapping boundaries?

eg: https://www.landregistry-uk.com/map-search 

It's a single line, I just checked on the link you attached and the image on there matches the title plan I have, my neighbours plan is different.

ProDave

ijm2010 said:

theoretica said:

What is shown on the maps which show both your properties?  A single line or overlapping boundaries?

eg: https://www.landregistry-uk.com/map-search 

It's a single line, I just checked on the link you attached and the image on there matches the title plan I have, my neighbours plan is different.

Is the neighbours plan a hand drawn map?

What history do you have of your property?  Any previous owner known to have lived there more than 12 years ago willing to state that is how the boundary has always been, in which as a fall back adverse possession would claim all that is yours.

theoretica

ijm2010 said:

theoretica said:

What is shown on the maps which show both your properties?  A single line or overlapping boundaries?

eg: https://www.landregistry-uk.com/map-search 

It's a single line, I just checked on the link you attached and the image on there matches the title plan I have, my neighbours plan is different.

That seems a good point for you and the current deeds matching the situation on the ground.

ijm2010

ProDave said:

ijm2010 said:

theoretica said:

What is shown on the maps which show both your properties?  A single line or overlapping boundaries?

eg: https://www.landregistry-uk.com/map-search 

It's a single line, I just checked on the link you attached and the image on there matches the title plan I have, my neighbours plan is different.

Is the neighbours plan a hand drawn map?

What history do you have of your property?  Any previous owner known to have lived there more than 12 years ago willing to state that is how the boundary has always been, in which as a fall back adverse possession would claim all that is yours.

Yes neighbours is hand drawn,mine is digital.
Previous, previous owner of neighbours died and it lay empty for 10 years, then previous owners bought a year before us and moved early this year when current neighbour moved in. Mine was a rental for 10+ years until the guy I bought from purchased in 2015 and sold to me in 2019, the impression I get is the owner from the rental era is old and went into a home, which is why it was rented, I think he has passed away now too. So nobody from that era is able to give info.

propertyrental

Correct a boundary mistake on a title plan:

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries/correct-boundary-mistake-title-plan          

Ath_Wat

ijm2010 said:

Hi all, I purchased a property in 2019 and my new neighbours this year. We have had nothing but issues with the boundaries of the garden. The back garden extends to about 0.5 acre and is around 400ft long, on one of the boarders there is an ongoing dispute with the neighbour over where the boundary lies. There is Wooden 6ft fence on the disputed side for only the first 80ft or so and then a flimsy chicken wire fence for the remaining 120ft (my garden is approx double the length of my neighbours)
My title deeds/plans show my left and right boundaries are parallel. My neighbours deeds/plans (which I pulled a copy of) show my garden narrows the further you get away from the house until the end of my neighbours garden. At this point the difference is about 2 fence panels wide, around 12ft. This has resulted in an area of land that is shown as owned on both our deeds/plans, it doesn't sound like a lot but this triangle of land is roughly 1200 sqft., due to the length of the gardens.
My neighbours plans are dated 1977 and mine are dated 2014. There are also inaccuracies in my neighbours deeds (such as neighbouring houses that have been built since 1977, and boundary layouts, that have changed in the last 40 years) that appear to be corrected in mine. Mine also appear to accurately reflect what is on the OS maps of the area.
In summary I am looking for someone who can tell me who's deeds/plans are correct? Can anybody help?

Regards

Which plan is currently reflected by the existing fences?

ijm2010

Ath_Wat said:

ijm2010 said:

Hi all, I purchased a property in 2019 and my new neighbours this year. We have had nothing but issues with the boundaries of the garden. The back garden extends to about 0.5 acre and is around 400ft long, on one of the boarders there is an ongoing dispute with the neighbour over where the boundary lies. There is Wooden 6ft fence on the disputed side for only the first 80ft or so and then a flimsy chicken wire fence for the remaining 120ft (my garden is approx double the length of my neighbours)
My title deeds/plans show my left and right boundaries are parallel. My neighbours deeds/plans (which I pulled a copy of) show my garden narrows the further you get away from the house until the end of my neighbours garden. At this point the difference is about 2 fence panels wide, around 12ft. This has resulted in an area of land that is shown as owned on both our deeds/plans, it doesn't sound like a lot but this triangle of land is roughly 1200 sqft., due to the length of the gardens.
My neighbours plans are dated 1977 and mine are dated 2014. There are also inaccuracies in my neighbours deeds (such as neighbouring houses that have been built since 1977, and boundary layouts, that have changed in the last 40 years) that appear to be corrected in mine. Mine also appear to accurately reflect what is on the OS maps of the area.
In summary I am looking for someone who can tell me who's deeds/plans are correct? Can anybody help?

Regards

Which plan is currently reflected by the existing fences?

My plan closely reflects the wooden portion of the fence and the rough position of the wire fence. I.e. both fence lines (right and left hand side) are parallel, and my plan shows they should be parallel

Bendy_House

Hi ijm.

Your garden is 400' long? The boundaries are shown in your deeds as 'straight' (or near-as), and this is reflected in reality, on the ground? Ie, both your 'fences' are essentially 'straight' and parallel with each other?

On one side - the one with this disputive(sic) neighbour - there is a wooden fence for around 80', and this continues as a flimsy wire fence for the remaining 120' of boundary with this neighbour? Both wooden and wire are in line?

Beyond this - for the remaining 200' of your garden - that same side borders a different neighbour? And that also continues in a, as-near-as, straight, parallel line?

So, to visualise, if you were to adjust your fence to accommodate your neighb's claims, the wooden and wire fence on that side would instead taper slightly inwards on your side in a still-straight and steady line (but no longer parallel), do this for the first 200' of your boundary with this neighbour until it reached the bottom of their garden, and... then what? What do the neighb's deeds show then? Is it:

a) that 400' boundary continues in a straight, tapering line - ie it will be 24' narrower at the very bottom? Or,

b) the taper 'only' lasts for 200', whereupon it then dog-legs back to where it currently is, and then carries on in a straight-and-parallel line for the remaining 200'?

(In any dealings or conversations with this neighbour - hopefully things are friendly and you do talk? - emphasise (if you need to - if you have 'concerns') that there will be an answer to this, so what mustn't happen is for either party to take unilateral action (and try and witness or record you saying this). I wouldn't agree to anything such as a boundary surveyor for the moment, and not until your LP guidance gets to the point where they say 'best to'. For the moment, I'd play it as matter-of-fact, "It's really very clear which deeds map is the more accurate and current of the two, and that the boundary has been like this almost certainly forever, but at least decades. And for a boundary to taper as yours suggests doesn't make any sense. This seems really concrete to me, so forgive me if I'm not inclined to become involved in any prolonged discussion over this. If you really believe that your deeds map is the correct one, then it's up to you to prove it." I paraphrase.)