Ready to exchange but boiler appears broken after my final viewing

ian1246

silverbanana said:

I am getting my advice from everyone here and my friends in real life. 

I am communicating to my solicitor and estate agent at the same time.

The estate agent was meant to update me on Monday (when the gas engineer was coming to look at the boiler) but I haven't heard from him except last night after I sent my unhappy email to say...

Just got your email. I've got a lot to update you on with regards to the boiler and parking etc that hasn't perhaps come across in the responses from the solicitor and that they won't know. I'll call you with an update tomorrow as I know it so far. Speak to you tomorrow.

My response re the boiler was:-

Re: Point 1 - I do not believe the seller arranging the repair of a 14-year old boiler is a satisfactory resolution nor have I been advised what the fault is. I had documented concerns regarding the boiler and the seller chose to ignore my email dated 10th October 2022 asking him to be mindful that gas/electrics being shut off at source was bad for the house. If this was a car purchase and on a test drive the car wouldn’t start because of a dead battery, I’d insist the garage replaced the battery. If I took a closer look at the previous service history and noticed it hasn't been regularly serviced - just had an MOT certificate, the car will be devalued. It is not reasonable to knowingly buy a car with all those faults and certainly not for the same sticker price.

Your inexperience in buying really is showing. Your assuming many things about the boilers state. 14 years may mean its on its last legs, or it could be absolutely fine for another 10 years.

An example: our current Worcester boiler was fitted in 2007. When we moved into our current house, in 2021, despite it having been serviced annually when it came to Winter and running the central heating, we discovered it was leaking internally and loosing pressure, needing topping up everyday. 

We thought we'd have to replace it at the cost of a few £1000, we got our local gas servicing company out who told us theat whilst they could repair it, we would be better off calling out Worcester Bosch who for a single fee of £300 will repair the fault & replace everything else required and provide a full report. Tjat £300 included a 12 month boiler cover.  Result? We now have a 15 year old boiler, which according to our 2022 gas service-man, is now essentially a almost new boiler given so much of it was replaced - For £300. 

We also now have a £18 a month boiler plan with Worcester which includes a annual service, breakdown cover (parts & labour) & should it be uneconomical to replace, something like £750 towards the cost of a new boiler.

A annual service would be about £130 so thats not a bad deal to cover the Financial risk of our boiler going "bang".

My point? Whatever is wrong with your Boiler could be catastrophic, or it could be a easy fix on a boiler which has been well maintained, with new parts, which has another 10-15 years in it, which you could also off-set with boiler cover.

Rather than throw £1000s of £££ in legal fees, why don't you just send your own engineer around to assess it? It ll cost maybe £100. They ll then give you the information needed to assess the risk it poses to you in terms of how it looks.

[Deleted User]

ian1246 said:

silverbanana said:

I am getting my advice from everyone here and my friends in real life. 

I am communicating to my solicitor and estate agent at the same time.

The estate agent was meant to update me on Monday (when the gas engineer was coming to look at the boiler) but I haven't heard from him except last night after I sent my unhappy email to say...

Just got your email. I've got a lot to update you on with regards to the boiler and parking etc that hasn't perhaps come across in the responses from the solicitor and that they won't know. I'll call you with an update tomorrow as I know it so far. Speak to you tomorrow.

My response re the boiler was:-

Re: Point 1 - I do not believe the seller arranging the repair of a 14-year old boiler is a satisfactory resolution nor have I been advised what the fault is. I had documented concerns regarding the boiler and the seller chose to ignore my email dated 10th October 2022 asking him to be mindful that gas/electrics being shut off at source was bad for the house. If this was a car purchase and on a test drive the car wouldn’t start because of a dead battery, I’d insist the garage replaced the battery. If I took a closer look at the previous service history and noticed it hasn't been regularly serviced - just had an MOT certificate, the car will be devalued. It is not reasonable to knowingly buy a car with all those faults and certainly not for the same sticker price.

Your inexperience in buying really is showing. Your assuming many things about the boilers state. 14 years may mean its on its last legs, or it could be absolutely fine for another 10 years.

An example: our current Worcester boiler was fitted in 2007. When we moved into our current house, in 2021, despite it having been serviced annually when it came to Winter and running the central heating, we discovered it was leaking internally and loosing pressure, needing topping up everyday. 

We thought we'd have to replace it at the cost of a few £1000, we got our local gas servicing company out who told us theat whilst they could repair it, we would be better off calling out Worcester Bosch who for a single fee of £300 will repair the fault & replace everything else required and provide a full report. Tjat £300 included a 12 month boiler cover.  Result? We now have a 15 year old boiler, which according to our 2022 gas service-man, is now essentially a almost new boiler given so much of it was replaced - For £300. 

We also now have a £18 a month boiler plan with Worcester which includes a annual service, breakdown cover (parts & labour) & should it be uneconomical to replace, something like £750 towards the cost of a new boiler.

A annual service would be about £130 so thats not a bad deal to cover the Financial risk of our boiler going "bang".

My point? Whatever is wrong with your Boiler could be catastrophic, or it could be a easy fix on a boiler which has been well maintained, with new parts, which has another 10-15 years in it, which you could also off-set with boiler cover.

Rather than throw £1000s of £££ in legal fees, why don't you just send your own engineer around to assess it? It ll cost maybe £100. They ll then give you the information needed to assess the risk it poses to you in terms of how it looks.

This is very patronising. The OP's concerns are genuine and realistic.

I would proceed until it's replaced with a quality boiler by a reputable firm with a warranty on the work. The probability that the current one will fail soon and cost thousands to replace is high.

In fact I'd be looking for a heat pump these days. Boilers are being banned soon and gas is an expensive and damaging product. I'd offer to contribute to that, but especially if it is unoccupied then now is the time to get it done as it will be a bit disruptive.

hazyjo

[Deleted User] said:

ian1246 said:

silverbanana said:

I am getting my advice from everyone here and my friends in real life. 

I am communicating to my solicitor and estate agent at the same time.

The estate agent was meant to update me on Monday (when the gas engineer was coming to look at the boiler) but I haven't heard from him except last night after I sent my unhappy email to say...

Just got your email. I've got a lot to update you on with regards to the boiler and parking etc that hasn't perhaps come across in the responses from the solicitor and that they won't know. I'll call you with an update tomorrow as I know it so far. Speak to you tomorrow.

My response re the boiler was:-

Re: Point 1 - I do not believe the seller arranging the repair of a 14-year old boiler is a satisfactory resolution nor have I been advised what the fault is. I had documented concerns regarding the boiler and the seller chose to ignore my email dated 10th October 2022 asking him to be mindful that gas/electrics being shut off at source was bad for the house. If this was a car purchase and on a test drive the car wouldn’t start because of a dead battery, I’d insist the garage replaced the battery. If I took a closer look at the previous service history and noticed it hasn't been regularly serviced - just had an MOT certificate, the car will be devalued. It is not reasonable to knowingly buy a car with all those faults and certainly not for the same sticker price.

Your inexperience in buying really is showing. Your assuming many things about the boilers state. 14 years may mean its on its last legs, or it could be absolutely fine for another 10 years.

An example: our current Worcester boiler was fitted in 2007. When we moved into our current house, in 2021, despite it having been serviced annually when it came to Winter and running the central heating, we discovered it was leaking internally and loosing pressure, needing topping up everyday. 

We thought we'd have to replace it at the cost of a few £1000, we got our local gas servicing company out who told us theat whilst they could repair it, we would be better off calling out Worcester Bosch who for a single fee of £300 will repair the fault & replace everything else required and provide a full report. Tjat £300 included a 12 month boiler cover.  Result? We now have a 15 year old boiler, which according to our 2022 gas service-man, is now essentially a almost new boiler given so much of it was replaced - For £300. 

We also now have a £18 a month boiler plan with Worcester which includes a annual service, breakdown cover (parts & labour) & should it be uneconomical to replace, something like £750 towards the cost of a new boiler.

A annual service would be about £130 so thats not a bad deal to cover the Financial risk of our boiler going "bang".

My point? Whatever is wrong with your Boiler could be catastrophic, or it could be a easy fix on a boiler which has been well maintained, with new parts, which has another 10-15 years in it, which you could also off-set with boiler cover.

Rather than throw £1000s of £££ in legal fees, why don't you just send your own engineer around to assess it? It ll cost maybe £100. They ll then give you the information needed to assess the risk it poses to you in terms of how it looks.

Boilers are being banned soon...

Not actually true. They won't be fitted in new homes. It's prob going to be 15-20 years or so before the sale of them is banned, and, even then, you won't have to replace your existing boiler.

[Deleted User]

silverbanana said:

Mutton_Geoff said:

silverbanana said:

A 14 year old boiler is on it's last legs and needs replacing - that's the general consensus my friends are telling me. He hasn't regularly serviced it so it's unlikely to go beyond 20 years. I can factor in a replacement but I didn't factor that factoring into my offer.

How many of those friends are plumbing/gas safe engineers? Why not employ your own plumber to look at it rather than rely on the vendor? I wouldn't say they can't be trusted now, after all as a landlord they would have only had arms length contact with the property.

I haven't been given the option to, I would prefer that.

They can't be trusted no for a few reasons but I will keep topic on boiler.

I hope to have an update on that today, it's been due since Monday.

Never, ever, wait to be given and option for anything in life - but especially the most expensive purchase you'll ever make in life.
always ask/query it as soon as you feel it.

Ask professionals not random people, in the long term your peace of mind is worth ten times anything else, yes, of course it will cost you, but, again, it's worth it for the peace of mind.

TheJP

[Deleted User] said:

ian1246 said:

silverbanana said:

I am getting my advice from everyone here and my friends in real life. 

I am communicating to my solicitor and estate agent at the same time.

The estate agent was meant to update me on Monday (when the gas engineer was coming to look at the boiler) but I haven't heard from him except last night after I sent my unhappy email to say...

Just got your email. I've got a lot to update you on with regards to the boiler and parking etc that hasn't perhaps come across in the responses from the solicitor and that they won't know. I'll call you with an update tomorrow as I know it so far. Speak to you tomorrow.

My response re the boiler was:-

Re: Point 1 - I do not believe the seller arranging the repair of a 14-year old boiler is a satisfactory resolution nor have I been advised what the fault is. I had documented concerns regarding the boiler and the seller chose to ignore my email dated 10th October 2022 asking him to be mindful that gas/electrics being shut off at source was bad for the house. If this was a car purchase and on a test drive the car wouldn’t start because of a dead battery, I’d insist the garage replaced the battery. If I took a closer look at the previous service history and noticed it hasn't been regularly serviced - just had an MOT certificate, the car will be devalued. It is not reasonable to knowingly buy a car with all those faults and certainly not for the same sticker price.

Your inexperience in buying really is showing. Your assuming many things about the boilers state. 14 years may mean its on its last legs, or it could be absolutely fine for another 10 years.

An example: our current Worcester boiler was fitted in 2007. When we moved into our current house, in 2021, despite it having been serviced annually when it came to Winter and running the central heating, we discovered it was leaking internally and loosing pressure, needing topping up everyday. 

We thought we'd have to replace it at the cost of a few £1000, we got our local gas servicing company out who told us theat whilst they could repair it, we would be better off calling out Worcester Bosch who for a single fee of £300 will repair the fault & replace everything else required and provide a full report. Tjat £300 included a 12 month boiler cover.  Result? We now have a 15 year old boiler, which according to our 2022 gas service-man, is now essentially a almost new boiler given so much of it was replaced - For £300. 

We also now have a £18 a month boiler plan with Worcester which includes a annual service, breakdown cover (parts & labour) & should it be uneconomical to replace, something like £750 towards the cost of a new boiler.

A annual service would be about £130 so thats not a bad deal to cover the Financial risk of our boiler going "bang".

My point? Whatever is wrong with your Boiler could be catastrophic, or it could be a easy fix on a boiler which has been well maintained, with new parts, which has another 10-15 years in it, which you could also off-set with boiler cover.

Rather than throw £1000s of £££ in legal fees, why don't you just send your own engineer around to assess it? It ll cost maybe £100. They ll then give you the information needed to assess the risk it poses to you in terms of how it looks.

This is very patronising. The OP's concerns are genuine and realistic.

I would proceed until it's replaced with a quality boiler by a reputable firm with a warranty on the work. The probability that the current one will fail soon and cost thousands to replace is high.

In fact I'd be looking for a heat pump these days. Boilers are being banned soon and gas is an expensive and damaging product. I'd offer to contribute to that, but especially if it is unoccupied then now is the time to get it done as it will be a bit disruptive.

The OP still has found out whether the boiler is broken, their offer was based on a 14 year old boiler that works. If the boiler works then the OP is not owed a new boiler.

Ask the vendor to have the heating on when they visit, its a simple solution to figure out if it works or not. If the repairs the vendor is getting done fail then the OP can ask for a new boiler but be prepared for the cheapest one going. Id rather ask for a contribution and have my own fitted of my choosing.

Bookowl

kazwookie said:

Ask the vendor via your solicitor for a condition report regarding the boiler, ie does it work, when was it lasted service, if is doesn't worjk what is wrong with it, is there a formal service report.

What is on the fix / fitting report.

I’m a FTB as well and am wondering when in the process could I ask for this?

If I view the house again, if the boiler was serviced, would it be on  boiler somewhere? Like a sticker?
I’ve viewed the house twice and it has had the heating on and tried taps- water seems to be working.
I’m at the very early stages of the buying process:
I’ve had an offer accepted and going through the mortgage process currently. 

If you could offer any advice.
Thanks

badger09

Bookowl said:

kazwookie said:

Ask the vendor via your solicitor for a condition report regarding the boiler, ie does it work, when was it lasted service, if is doesn't worjk what is wrong with it, is there a formal service report.

What is on the fix / fitting report.

I’m a FTB as well and am wondering when in the process could I ask for this?

If I view the house again, if the boiler was serviced, would it be on  boiler somewhere? Like a sticker?
I’ve viewed the house twice and it has had the heating on and tried taps- water seems to be working.
I’m at the very early stages of the buying process:
I’ve had an offer accepted and going through the mortgage process currently. 

If you could offer any advice.
Thanks

I doubt there will be anything on the boiler, unless it’s condemned and that’s the last thing you want😉

The Property Information Form (item 5) completed by the vendor & sent to you by your solicitor, should tell you whether there is a guarantee for the boiler. 

The Fittings & Contents Form will tell you whether a boiler is included & vendor might include comment as to when it was last serviced (assuming it has been)
Your solicitor can ask questions about it but there is no obligation for vendor to have boiler serviced. If you’re at all unsure, you should ask vendor to allow your gas engineer to inspect the boiler at your expense. 

silverbanana

Just closing off this tale so people can see it in the future....

Exchanged, completed!

Day of move in - boiler had broken again.

Ended up needing to replace it at cost of £2.75k but included a hive thermostat.

In hindsight, I should've done more... if you are reading this in a similar situation - stick to your guns!

All the best

silvercar

Thanks for reporting back.

You now have a new home with an efficient boiler. You should see lower running costs and hopefully have a boiler under warranty and less repairs likely to it in the next few years.

Enjoy your new home. 

housebuyer143

silverbanana said:

Just closing off this tale so people can see it in the future....

Exchanged, completed!

Day of move in - boiler had broken again.

Ended up needing to replace it at cost of £2.75k but included a hive thermostat.

In hindsight, I should've done more... if you are reading this in a similar situation - stick to your guns!

All the best

Damn! That's unlucky. Especially as it was fixed. 
At least you got a new boiler and you don't need to worry anymore about it.