HP laptop unfixable after 14 months. Curry’s offer 50% refund

Undervalued

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Undervalued said:

eskbanker said:

Undervalued said:

eskbanker said:

Undervalued said:

kaggi said:

Curry’s have said they’re returning it unfixed with a letter so section 75 it is then as they just don’t seem to be remotely bothered. 14 months isn’t okay when my old ASUS laptop lasted 10 years.  

I sympathise but I don't think you have a right to a full refund via s75. I suspect Curry's will fight if you go down that route.

Surely the whole point of section 75 is that it's claiming directly from the credit provider by holding them to be liable, so such action would circumvent Curry's - that still doesn't necessarily mean a full refund will be forthcoming but Curry's opinion on the matter is irrelevant at that stage.

Yes and no.

If it is disputed the credit card company will need information from Curry's as to why they felt they were within their rights not to meet the OP's demands. The agreement between the retailer and the CC company will give them the right to that information.

If it's disputed by who?  There will be no agreement as such between the retailer and OP's CC company, and my understanding is that (unlike chargeback) credit card companies will typically deal with s75 claims on their own merits rather than liaising with merchants, although they may seek an independent report....

The credit card company. They are very unlikely to pay based on only the customer's side of the story and are fully entitled to hear what the retailer has to say on the matter before deciding.

With respect, I think your understanding is wrong and the situation is normally as described by @screech_78 above.

They can obviously hear what the retailer has to say and presumably use that to their advantage but what are Currys going to say?

We think the goods conformed to the contract but offered the customer £300 for their laptop because we're nice? 

The issue appears to solely be over the amount rather than what's wrong with the laptop, Currys (and perhaps the card provider) may think £300 is acceptable, OP doesn't, if an agreement can't be made OP has the choice to get another opinion (small claims). 

At a glance of Currys repair service it says they'll take a fixed fee and then phone to agree repair costs (after the inspection I presume), I might be missing it but I don't see anything to say they'll refund the product if it can't be fixed as part of their repair service. Of course I don't know exactly what OP paid £60 for as it hasn't been stated, if Currys are offering something where they refund if they can't repair OP would have to check the terms but that doesn't stop them enforcing their rights against Currys or the card provider, only thing OP may be missing is a independent inspection, if only one of the parties involved had already carried out an inspection and could say what has caused this problem with the laptop...... 

I think even the OP agrees (in some posts at least) that he is only due a partial refund and the dispute is about how much. Most who have commented on here, me included, think Curry's offer of half the purchase price is on the low side.

Regarding the independent inspection, are Curry's not trying to charge the OP £60 for that? If he has to pay that then he is certainly entitled to a copy. Presumably this was produced by a (supposedly) independent company. If so, then generally the small claims courts do not like multiple conflicting "expert" opinions unless there is a very good reason. 

Batteries do have a limited life, although 14 months is unacceptably short. Unless the laptop or battery logs the cycles there is no telling how many it has. How it is used is also a big factor, some say charging to around 80% then using down to 20% (say) is far better for battery life than constantly topping up to 100%. Books and PhDs have been written on this subject. I suspect most four year old laptop batteries are significantly degraded, although my still be very usable for some needs. So, if the battery is not intended to be user changeable then I suspect 14 months represents between a quarter and a third of the reasonable life. So, two thirds to three quarter's of the new price would be fair IMHO.

eskbanker

Undervalued said:

eskbanker said:

Undervalued said:

eskbanker said:

Undervalued said:

kaggi said:

Curry’s have said they’re returning it unfixed with a letter so section 75 it is then as they just don’t seem to be remotely bothered. 14 months isn’t okay when my old ASUS laptop lasted 10 years.  

I sympathise but I don't think you have a right to a full refund via s75. I suspect Curry's will fight if you go down that route.

Surely the whole point of section 75 is that it's claiming directly from the credit provider by holding them to be liable, so such action would circumvent Curry's - that still doesn't necessarily mean a full refund will be forthcoming but Curry's opinion on the matter is irrelevant at that stage.

Yes and no.

If it is disputed the credit card company will need information from Curry's as to why they felt they were within their rights not to meet the OP's demands. The agreement between the retailer and the CC company will give them the right to that information.

If it's disputed by who?  There will be no agreement as such between the retailer and OP's CC company, and my understanding is that (unlike chargeback) credit card companies will typically deal with s75 claims on their own merits rather than liaising with merchants, although they may seek an independent report....

The credit card company. They are very unlikely to pay based on only the customer's side of the story and are fully entitled to hear what the retailer has to say on the matter before deciding.

With respect, I think your understanding is wrong and the situation is normally as described by @screech_78 above.

I think you're missing the point I was making - there is no doubt that credit providers can and do consult with merchants when addressing s75 claims, but the fact that they have the right to do so doesn't mean they have the obligation, so it's up to the card company to decide whether or not to ask Curry's for their input.

Even if they choose to do so, Curry's don't get to continue to 'fight' as such, as they no longer have any skin in the game (since the card company picks up the tab, as pointed out by @screech_78 above), so the decision rests with the credit provider, who is being held liable under the s75 process, rather than acting as some sort of arbiter.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not saying that card providers will simply refund based on the customer's version of events, but that they control the process and choose whether or not to involve others, based on an assessment of the evidence initially presented by the customer.

born_again

screech_78 said:

eskbanker said:

Undervalued said:

eskbanker said:

Undervalued said:

kaggi said:

Curry’s have said they’re returning it unfixed with a letter so section 75 it is then as they just don’t seem to be remotely bothered. 14 months isn’t okay when my old ASUS laptop lasted 10 years.  

I sympathise but I don't think you have a right to a full refund via s75. I suspect Curry's will fight if you go down that route.

Surely the whole point of section 75 is that it's claiming directly from the credit provider by holding them to be liable, so such action would circumvent Curry's - that still doesn't necessarily mean a full refund will be forthcoming but Curry's opinion on the matter is irrelevant at that stage.

Yes and no.

If it is disputed the credit card company will need information from Curry's as to why they felt they were within their rights not to meet the OP's demands. The agreement between the retailer and the CC company will give them the right to that information.

If it's disputed by who?  There will be no agreement as such between the retailer and OP's CC company, and my understanding is that (unlike chargeback) credit card companies will typically deal with s75 claims on their own merits rather than liaising with merchants, although they may seek an independent report....

The company I work for frequently get section 75 complaints sent to us from the card issuer. We respond with any evidence we have and as far as I know, the credit card company will then look at both sides and make a decision.

A section 75 comes out of the credit card’s pockets so they won’t make a decision based purely on the OP’s thoughts. 

From the card issuers point of the vue. The value of the claim is a starting point on just how much time & effort is spent on the case. So actually contacting a retailer is something that does not happen that often. 
Which is why we require T/C & a independent report to back up any claim. 

I have written off decent amounts as the S75 team say it's not worth their time & effort to even look at it.

eskbanker

born_again said:
From the card issuers point of the vue. The value of the claim is a starting point on just how much time & effort is spent on the case. So actually contacting a retailer is something that does not happen that often. 

Which is why we require T/C & a independent report to back up any claim. 

I have written off decent amounts as the S75 team say it's not worth their time & effort to even look at it.

It would be something of a coincidence if you worked for OP's card issuer, but out of curiosity, if OP's claim landed on your (company's) desk, how would you deal with it?

born_again

I don't deal with paperwork 👀 thankfully. That would go direct to S75 team.

Other than that if speaking to OP take details & Pass it onto the S75 team. 👍So long as OP has the required info to give them. If not OP will have to get it before they will look at it.
It is not often we have to refund, only if we get to speak direct to team to check something & they say "Give them the money back" 

eskbanker

born_again said:

I don't deal with paperwork 👀 thankfully. That would go direct to S75 team.

Other than that if speaking to OP take details & Pass it onto the S75 team. 👍So long as OP has the required info to give them. If not OP will have to get it before they will look at it.
It is not often we have to refund, only if we get to speak direct to team to check something & they say "Give them the money back" 

I was meaning how would your s75 team deal with it - you seemed to be posting information from their perspective ("So actually contacting a retailer is something that does not happen that often. Which is why we require T/C & a independent report to back up any claim") so I was curious about how your company might handle OP's claim, based on the information shared thus far in the thread....

Exodi

I'm sceptical that this is a battery issue as suggested.

You'd presume that the first thing Currys team did upon inspection was noticing the battery did not hold charge, opened the laptop up and tested a replacement battery. The laptop batteries I have replaced in the past can be anywhere around £20-£60 (and they probably have access to even cheaper prices than this). Presumably this didn't work as it wouldn't make sense offering a £300 refund, when they could just perform a £30 repair.

So this leads me to two conclusions:

1) Either the laptop was not working when it was sent (could you confirm OP - could you still use the laptop when connected to the charger or not?), and the issue is a lot more serious than just a dead battery
2) Currys have not bothered properly inspecting the laptop, and deemed that offering £300 was quicker and easier than looking into the repair.

Which is suprising because you'd need to replace a lot of parts to spend £300 on repairs.

km1500

Maybe if you google 'hp laptop repair' and take the laptop to an authorised repair centre.

Get a quote, maybe add the Currys £60, and that is your loss and what you should claim from Currys or S75.

Exodi

screech_78 said:

macman said:

zoob said:

Jono111 said:

Get a quote from HP to repair it, the ones we get done at work cost just under £300 for most faults. That way you can accept the partial refund and get it fixed at no cost to yourself 

I would assume the laptop becomes currys property when they give partial refund 

Of course, because in turn they'll be seeking a refund of the wholesale price from HP.

Almost never happens. 

Retails have debit agreements with manufacturers/suppliers. A refund of the cost price only applies if the item is DOA (faulty within 30 days of purchase). Anything out with this, the retailer might get a very small percentage back however from experience, it’s usually a soul destroying battle. 

Second this (as a manufacturer myself).

Forumites shouldn't be under the false impression that retailers can just willy nilly ship back pallets of goods to manufacturers for refund as this is absolutely not the case. In my personal experience, outside of the first month or two, the retailer will shoulder the loss if a fault is reported.

Especially on a consumable part like a battery (sorry, I understand that defining a non-replaceable battery as a consumable is controversial - but I intend it to mean 'a part that is expected to materially degrade with use').

kaggi

Exodi said:

I'm sceptical that this is a battery issue as suggested.

You'd presume that the first thing Currys team did upon inspection was noticing the battery did not hold charge, opened the laptop up and tested a replacement battery. The laptop batteries I have replaced in the past can be anywhere around £20-£60 (and they probably have access to even cheaper prices than this). Presumably this didn't work as it wouldn't make sense offering a £300 refund, when they could just perform a £30 repair.

So this leads me to two conclusions:

1) Either the laptop was not working when it was sent (could you confirm OP - could you still use the laptop when connected to the charger or not?), and the issue is a lot more serious than just a dead battery
2) Currys have not bothered properly inspecting the laptop, and deemed that offering £300 was quicker and easier than looking into the repair.

Which is suprising because you'd need to replace a lot of parts to spend £300 on repairs.

The laptop as working when connected to the mains.  The diagnostic tool showed the battery level was 100% until 19th October and as of the 20th it dropped to about 30% and then kept dropping steadily from then until it was about 7% and not charging when I returned it.  The battery status is showing as replace. 

According to their text message it arrived with them on 29th October, their website said I was to contact the, on the 2nd November which I did and they said they didn’t have anything to ask me but it hadn’t arrived with them until the 1st and they hadn’t looked at it but it wouldn’t be back on the 3rd as previously advised.  Then I got a text saying it was coming back on the 3rd but it didn’t.  I spoke to someone this Saturday (5th) who said it had been looked at and they couldn’t fix it so they were offering the £303 which I said was too low, so he then said that was wrong, if they can’t fix it that is what they would offer but it was with another engineer to look at as they didn’t know what was wrong.  Then on Sunday I got a message saying it was coming back unfixed with a letter.  

I expected a call when they had looked at it to let me know what was wrong but nobody has called me back at all so they are just presenting everything like a fait accompli.  It is a sealed battery and I haven’t been able to find a replacement battery even if it is that, but as they didn’t think it was just the battery when their first engineer looked at it and it didn’t drop gradually, and there didn’t seem much time between them not know what was wrong and then just deciding it was the battery and was getting sent back I don’t feel confident they know what is wrong.  I have asked they they didn’t call me to let me know what was wrong and I haven’t  had a reply.  I’m just so disappointed in all of this, I need my laptop and I am at my wits end.