My aunt's maintenance bill is going up by £6,000 in December.

Sarah1Mitty2

diystarter7 said:

I agree with almost everything posted here.
I've said it before if you buying an apartment, please, please be aware that service charges may skyrocket and you may have problems selling the property at the expected price due to high service charges.
Service charges can easily shoot up, especially for one off repairs - replacement roof/windows and or lift or electric gates continuously playing up

When buying an apartment, check the service charge history and any works due or you feel may be dues and past history is no guarantee of the future.

Yes, that makes sense.

GDB2222

DE_612183 said:

surely the management company should have a sinking fund to cover this?

There's no need to have a sinking fund, and there will be leaseholders who object to the management company 'having my money'.

GDB2222

eddddy said:

If there isn't a good reason to do the work - it's not reasonable to do it, and therefore it's not reasonable to charge the leaseholders.

I doubt it will be all that black or white.

Suppose the building could do with repointing. They could do a patch repair, just where there's water ingress, perhaps. But, apart from looking bad, doing the work piecemeal is more expensive in the long run, assuming the whole building will need to be done eventually. 

eddddy

GDB2222 said:

Suppose the building could do with repointing. They could do a patch repair, just where there's water ingress, perhaps. But, apart from looking bad, doing the work piecemeal is more expensive in the long run, assuming the whole building will need to be done eventually. 

So what you've described is a good reason to do all the work now. So a tribunal would probably agree that that the resulting charges are reasonable.

If it really did go all the way to tribunal - the opinion of RICS surveyors would probably carry a lot of weight. 


But, for example, if the freeholder's RICS surveyor said the work was necessary and the leaseholder's RICS surveyor says the work wasn't necessary - it becomes more difficult for the tribunal to make a decision.

However, the tribunal panel would include a senior RICS surveyor, who might visit the property to do their own inspection - so that would help the tribunal panel decide.

bouicca21

Maybe OP should stop panicking and read up about the Section 20 process.  If pre tender notifications haven’t been sent out yet, then there is no way the bill will be issued in December.

Civic2056

bouicca21 said:

Maybe OP should stop panicking and read up about the Section 20 process.  If pre tender notifications haven’t been sent out yet, then there is no way the bill will be issued in December.

Ok so update everyone.

I went round my aunt's this evening, just got back. Finally I have some more light to shed.

The information her neighbour recieved on the company's website was the annual budget. I have attatched a copy. It appears the service charge will go up £4,500 per person rather than £6000, instead her total bill will be around £6000.

However, there is no evidence that the company will comply with the S20 process.

Last year, last December when the service charge is paid, they added £800 to be paid and there was no consultation stage, no s20 no nothing, they all paid. They are almost all over 60s, pensioners who own their homes. 

The work needing to be done is indeed, repointing the brickwork. That's repointing - not repainting. I believe part of the work will also be to rectify a leak, so perhaps essential. But it's worth pointing out the £800 they paid last year - no work was ever done with that. They are thieves, and clearly think because they've all mistakenly paid last year when they should have been consulted, that they will fall for it again. Obviously if there is no s20 they can pay no more than £250. 

My aunt expressed concern that the company could falsify evidence of quotes or just use friends/relatives as contracts - dad in the CAB suggests they (the residents) can nominate somone/a company to give a quote. 

There are 12 tenants.

It is insane, none of them will be able to afford it. And even more insane when the management takes their money and actually never does anything with it. If the last time is anything to go by, there will be no S20 and thus they will only have to pay a fraction of the real amount, and hopefully these crooks will learn they are breaking the law

eddddy

It sounds like you're getting confused about some very important things.

The service charge will cover a long list of repairs and expenses - not just repointing the brickwork. You've provided no evidence that the extra £4500 is for repointing the brickwork - it could be for a very long list of things.



To address some points in your post:


You've cut the headings off that table of numbers in your photo - so it's not possible to tell what the numbers are.

Civic2056 said:

 I have attatched a copy. It appears the service charge will go up £4,500 per person rather than £6000, instead her total bill will be around £6000.

Where are you getting the number £6000 from? I can't see that anywhere in the photo.

Civic2056 said:

However, there is no evidence that the company will comply with the S20 process.

As I mentioned back on page 1 - no section 20 consultation is required to increase the estimated annual service charge (i.e. the  service charge budget).

Section 20 consultations are only required for major works - perhaps like repointing the brickwork (and not for other things covered in the Service Charge).

Civic2056 said:

Last year, last December when the service charge is paid, they added £800 to be paid and there was no consultation stage, no s20 no nothing, they all paid. 

  As above - no section 20 consultation is required to increase the estimated annual service charge.

Civic2056 said:

The work needing to be done is indeed, repointing the brickwork. 

If repointing the brickwork will cost any leaseholder more than £250 - then a section 20 consultation will have to be done before the work starts.

Perhaps that will be done later - maybe in a few months time.

Civic2056 said:

But it's worth pointing out the £800 they paid last year - no work was ever done with that. 

Why do you think that? You need to look at last year's accounts to see what the service charge money was spent on. That extra £800 could have been spent on a long list of things.

Civic2056 said:

... dad in the CAB suggests they (the residents) can nominate somone/a company to give a quote. 

They can do that when a section 20 consultation is done. (But no section 20 consultation is required at this stage.)

Civic2056

eddddy said:

It sounds like you're getting confused about some very important things.

The service charge will cover a long list of repairs and expenses - not just repointing the brickwork. You've provided no evidence that the extra £4500 is for repointing the brickwork - it could be for a very long list of things.



To address some points in your post:


You've cut the headings off that table of numbers in your photo - so it's not possible to tell what the numbers are.

Civic2056 said:

 I have attatched a copy. It appears the service charge will go up £4,500 per person rather than £6000, instead her total bill will be around £6000.

Where are you getting the number £6000 from? I can't see that anywhere in the photo.

Civic2056 said:

However, there is no evidence that the company will comply with the S20 process.

As I mentioned back on page 1 - no section 20 consultation is required to increase the estimated annual service charge (i.e. the  service charge budget).

Section 20 consultations are only required for major works - perhaps like repointing the brickwork (and not for other things covered in the Service Charge).

Civic2056 said:

Last year, last December when the service charge is paid, they added £800 to be paid and there was no consultation stage, no s20 no nothing, they all paid. 

  As above - no section 20 consultation is required to increase the estimated annual service charge.

Civic2056 said:

The work needing to be done is indeed, repointing the brickwork. 

If repointing the brickwork will cost any leaseholder more than £250 - then a section 20 consultation will have to be done before the work starts.

Perhaps that will be done later - maybe in a few months time.

Civic2056 said:

But it's worth pointing out the £800 they paid last year - no work was ever done with that. 

Why do you think that? You need to look at last year's accounts to see what the service charge money was spent on. That extra £800 could have been spent on a long list of things.

Civic2056 said:

... dad in the CAB suggests they (the residents) can nominate somone/a company to give a quote. 

They can do that when a section 20 consultation is done. (But no section 20 consultation is required at this stage.)

How can it possibly be fair or legally sound to increase an annual bill by £4,500 with no explanation? It can only be a one off. 

eddddy

Civic2056 said:

How can it possibly be fair or legally sound to increase an annual bill by £4,500 with no explanation? It can only be a one off. 

You need to look at the service charge bill to see what's on it.

Nobody here can guess what's on the bill.

(It's a bit like saying "How can it possibly be legal or fair that my supermarket bill is £200?". Step 1 is to look at the bill to see what's on it.)


And you haven't explained what the photo is that you posted.

And where have you got the figure of £6000 and/or £4500 from?

eddddy

Just taking a step back...

I can see that you're worried about your Aunt's welfare, and you're trying to help her. But you're a bit out of your depth.

You need to be careful that you don't give your Aunt bad advice, or raise her hopes.


For example, your idea that she (and others) shouldn't pay service charges is a very bad one. Your Aunt might have hundreds of pounds in fees added to her bill, if she does that. Or even lose her flat.

And suggesting that she only has to pay an increase of £250 in service charges is almost certainly wrong as well.


You say your dad works for the CAB. Can you arrange for your Aunt to speak to somebody at the CAB about this?