Default CCJ - VCS used wrong address even if I emailed them the correct one

Harvez63

Congratulations @bridgefixer and thanks for sharing your experience 

Interesting on the judges opinion on the case being dead.

How much of your defence did you have to go into with the judge regarding defending the original claim? 

bridgefixer

I bookmarked the thread (MSE Parking Ticket Appeals Guide feedback by MSE_JC), and enabled alerts. Cannot wait to give my input to the consultation. 

Will call/contact the Court today to get a copy of the order, and double-check that the cost are reserved. And I guess I need to point it out to the Judge if those words are missing, and they will amend the order if needed. Correct?

The Judge was of an older type, and even if not super-surly, he wasn't keen to explore other arguments. The whole business was over in 10-15 minutes. He asked about the consent order, and why I didn't agree, and the Claimant's draft order clearly set the starting point for the discussion. I should have done better job slowing down the pace of the proceedings, and go to my draft order and line of argument to go them through. I had prepared, but as the Judge set the speed of proceedings, me trying to keep up and not taking my time, it felt a little out of control. 

So, my advice to all court newbies is to think and prepare how to take their time, such as repeating the question back to the Judge, finding a right page in the binder / prep sheet, take a look at it, and then respond. I.e., find a strategy to gain some control of time, nerves, and proceedings. 

Also, I should have been more readily able to discuss the point of discuss serving vs. served to right address matter, and emphasised that the Claimant could first send a parking charge notice instead of the new claim, if the case was struck out. Although, I'm not sure any of this would have changed the outcome of the hearing.

I'll start looking into and preparing for the defence. I have the particulars from the previous default judgement. 

bridgefixer

Harvez63 said:

How much of your defence did you have to go into with the judge regarding defending the original claim? 

Not much. He probed quickly where I had parked, what did the sign say, and had I parked in a parking square. I responded by naming the place/development, and that the sign probably said something about private land, but that I cannot remember the exact wording, and that it was not visible at night and I found it fallen on the ground in the morning. And that the car was not in a square. 

On the other hand, he was quite clear that the Claimant cannot argue against the set aside based on the evidence I had provided, which clearly shows the correspondence went to a wrong address.

Harvez63

Thank you. Thats something I had noted should my hearing start going south; is although I dispute the original claim, that I was here regarding the set a side and not the original claim, but good to know your judge was already on top of that. 

Interesting about the square to, I didn't actually stop in a square but as your judge mentioned it, I'm just going to add it to my brief list of how I dispute the original claim if asked. 

Sorry anyway, back to your thread and thank again for helping and sharing your case 

bridgefixer

A little update. I called the court this morning to try to find out what was written to the order about the cost. I think the call went to the National Business Centre. The order wasn't visible in the system yet, and I was told it might take up to 20 days for it to be filed and mailed.

The person on the phone said that the verbal order takes precedence over the written order, and I guess this means that the order becomes effective on the it was verbally made, and that whatever the Judge said would hold over the written the order, but that would of course be difficult to prove later on if it not documented.

This leads to my second advice to court newbies. Make sure you understand and write down the order once it's been declared so that you have a clear record of what happened, why, and what will follow. You cannot expect the court to do it for you.

I might pop an email to the local court to ask/remind about cost reservations.

bridgefixer

For serving and filing a Defence, as far as I know, the response pack/N9 form is what I need if the online option fails. And I need to send the form within 14 days, and to the County Court in Oxford (not the Business Centre?) as my case was transferred to the local court for the set aside hearing. Following that, my defence will be filed later so that it will arrive no later than 28 days from the date of service, as per the Claim Form.

The Judge said in the set aside hearing that the Claimant have 14 days to serve the Claim, and I have then 14 days to respond after that (haven't seen the wording yet), but I guess that won't change the normal procedures around extending deadlines for submitting defence.

So, should to file an acknowledgement of service, either through MCOL or using N9, and start working on my defence?

Coupon-mad

I'll call the MCOL helpline on the password to see if I can somehow see the claim online.

You won't.  You aren't dealing with MCOL.

As far as I know, the response pack/N9 form is what I need if the online option fails. And I need to send the form within 14 days...

None of that is relevant to you.

Your case is not with the CCBC and that paperwork is for REFERENCE only.

and to the County Court in Oxford (not the Business Centre?

You do what your Oxford Judge ordered you to do.  The written order will arrive shortly if you didn't write it down.

Again, your case is not with the CCBC.

Johnersh

Don't wait for the written order. If C has served within 14 days, be mindful that you now need to serve per the order made at the hearing. 

bridgefixer

Thank you for helping with this. 

So, if I've got this right, MCOL and response pack/N9 are related to CCBC, and as the proceedings have been moved to the local court, none of that applies to me anymore. And as the letter is for reference only, it's merely an indication that here we go again, but most of the info printed on the letter does not really apply (as it reflects the state of affairs in the past). 
 
I'm going to start putting my documents together now, working on the assumption I need to serve my defence / other documents in 14 days, unless the written order somehow changes this. 

I need to read more on the forums to learn what do I need to serve with my defence. I assume I need to include at least a defence, witness statement, exhibits, skeleton argument, and costs, including the set aside – and probably a case summary and draft order.

I'll read more tomorrow and over coming days about defence, and start putting my package together. If you've any threads I should read in mind, in addition to newbies, I'd be happy to hear about them. It would help me remain on the right track. 

Coupon-mad

Yes you are.  Very good.

And yes, at post-CCJ set aside stage we do suggest sending everything you want to rely on, even though your Judge will only have ordered 'a defence'.

The reason is that we find that these post-CCJ cases operate unfairly and most local courts just move from asking for a defence, weirdly straight to a second hearing, with no directions at all about filing & serving a WS and evidence, leaving you high and dry in terms of having evidence to point to at the hearing!  It is madness.

So, we advise people to attack it proactively and file and serve the lot at this stage.

CCJ successes last year included threads by 

@Brokenchief

@Jack5656

@msx999

I think all of them had to do what you are now preparing.