PCN for parking in Parent and Child bay at a nursery despite having a child there

familyguy321

Good evening, 

This forum helped me couple of years ago to successfully appeal a PCN and I'm afraid I have to ask for help once again from you lovely people. 

As the registered keeper (RK), a family member has received a PCN because their vehicle was "parked in Parent and Child bay" which, allegedly, makes the driver liable for a parking charge. The location of the bay is outside a nursery.

Can this fine be appealed if the driver has a child in the nursery but had parked the car for a short while (~30mins), gone somewhere else, and then collected their child? 

For info - the nursery staff have said it is out of their hands but can provide evidence of the child being registered there if required.

Attached below is signage outside the nursery.

Regards,
FG

95Rollers

Where is their proof that you did not have a child with you? You can evidence that you were a nursery client and were picking up that day - which can be verified by the nursery (who have both written records and CCTV of the picking up).  Ask them what evidence they have got of your "offence"? Its a complete non-starter and ask them how their behaviour measures up against the Equalities Act of 2010?  When appealing these are things that I would both put to them - if they are stupid enough to push this to court I can see it being dismissed on those 2 facts alone.

I used to have to park my car on a carpark controlled by ACPOA when I collected my child from nursery. Sometimes there would be a queue and it could take 20 odd minutes even though it was a small nursery (I never had no issues) - but you would have clearly had a child car-seat in the vehicle as well no doubt which should be a bit of a clue.

Where does it say on the sign that you MUST leave the vehicle with a child and return to the vehicle with one!?! It doesn't because people will be dropping off or picking up if its a nursery carpark. They won't be stopping there for half hour or less. 

familyguy321

95Rollers said:

Where is their proof that you did not have a child with you? You can evidence that you were a nursery client and were picking up that day - which can be verified by the nursery (who have both written records and CCTV of the picking up).  Ask them what evidence they have got of your "offence"? Its a complete non-starter and ask them how their behaviour measures up against the Equalities Act of 2010?  When appealing these are things that I would both put to them - if they are stupid enough to push this to court I can see it being dismissed on those 2 facts alone.

Thanks for the quick reply and fully agree that they would be stupid enough to push this. The driver just wants to make sure the appeal is watertight - only sticking point is that the child was not collected straight away. 

For clarity, where does the Equalities Act 2010 come into this? I am aware of the act but unsure which part can be used in this instance as I thought it was more to do within the workplace?

theoretica

Is the nursery the XXXX customers only name you have blacked out in the sign?

95Rollers

I notice it says about leaving the site - but again where is their evidence of this and if someone was to see you leaving then their staff have done nothing to stop this or advise you of it.  The sign looks like it may be quite high up with small print with no lighting up of the text making it near impossible to read the thick/boldened text on a dark winter's evening!  Again lots of flaws. All worthy points for an appeal.  I


Re: the child "Not being picked up straigtaway"...If you're in the nursery there may be a queue at pick up time (there was when my kids were there) and then the staff are giving daily reports to each parent picking up which adds on a few minutes to each pickup and its not like you can jump the queue as they had a one in one out policy with a secure door - this was pre-covid so I can only imagine what its like now.  Plus what about things like parents showing their children round nurseries or parents evenings or whatever.  There is nothing on the sign saying a time limit on drop-offs/pickups.

Half_way

Is this car park for the nursery?

What is the name of the nursery?

if it is for the nursery what happened when you complained- if its the nursery's car park then they are liable for the actions of their agents-  the parking company

familyguy321

theoretica said:

Is the nursery the XXXX customers only name you have blacked out in the sign?

No, that is the name of the leisure park that the nursery is situated within.

familyguy321

95Rollers said:

I notice it says about leaving the site - but again where is their evidence of this and if someone was to see you leaving then their staff have done nothing to stop this or advise you of it.  The sign looks like it may be quite high up with small print with no lighting up of the text making it near impossible to read the thick/boldened text on a dark winter's evening!  Again lots of flaws. All worthy points for an appeal.  I


Re: the child "Not being picked up straigtaway"...If you're in the nursery there may be a queue at pick up time (there was when my kids were there) and then the staff are giving daily reports to each parent picking up which adds on a few minutes to each pickup and its not like you can jump the queue as they had a one in one out policy with a secure door - this was pre-covid so I can only imagine what its like now.  Plus what about things like parents showing their children round nurseries or parents evenings or whatever.  There is nothing on the sign saying a time limit on drop-offs/pickups.

I've scanned in the PCN which shows the sign in relation to where the vehicle was parked. Good point about there being nothing on the sign regarding time limit. 

familyguy321

Half_way said:

Is this car park for the nursery?

What is the name of the nursery?

if it is for the nursery what happened when you complained- if its the nursery's car park then they are liable for the actions of their agents-  the parking company

The nursery is situated within a leisure park which has other establishments. Directly outside the nursery there are some bays with a Parent and Child image white marking as can be seen in the photo on the PCN letter I've scanned above.

The nursery were very sympathetic (apparently it has happened to another parent too) but said it is out of their hands. They directed to the on-site security guard but they also said the matter was out of their hands. Apparently the PPC is contracted by the park landlord (Savills). It would be futile to speak to them as the signage says they cannot intervene in any dispute. 

familyguy321

Question: If the driver were to appeal, does the confirmation from nursery that the child is registered need to be included in that appeal? 

Coupon-mad

Apparently the PPC is contracted by the park landlord (Savills). It would be futile to speak to them as the signage says they cannot intervene in any dispute. 

You think? We say the opposite!

Surely you've seen from the Successful Complaints thread linked early in the NEWBIES thread, that Savills are normally great at stepping in if people are polite but persistent with a complaint? Among the best.