Parking and Property Management vs Mr Greenblatt (case dismissed AGAIN, costs ordered)

DownwithPPCs

Hi all,

Just to update you, I just came out of the final hearing, and the case brought against me by PPM was dismissed for the second time. My mother won against a different parking company, same land, in 2018, so that's technically three times now. Costs ordered also (£190). I asked the judge for an injunction order against them as they still have another claim they are threatening me with. The Judge refused and said I need to apply separately for an injunction order.

I had not got through hardly any of my WS before the judge made his mind up which was the same reason as last time. Parking company cannot override the lease, which states that Leaseholders and their visitors can park in a visitor's space. No evidence of lease change, and parking company not a party to the lease. Claimant's rep was a moron who just kept repeating himself and arguing that I wasn't a leaseholder even though lease clearly gives rights to visitors of leaseholders. I thought they would at least send someone decent against me. He then argued the judge had construed the lease wrong, which I believe the last rep at the other hearing did as well. Judge refused appeal.

HOWEVER, I still can't park in my mother's development, because I will still get ticketed, and even if I get the injunction order, if the MA change the Parking company the injunction becomes moot. So effectively parking company still wins and continues to steal from residents and visitors who are too intimidated to defend themselves in court. This is of course what needs to change. IMO PPCs should not be allowed on residential private estates unless they are bound to an agreement in which they cannot enforce action against residents or their visitors. Of course, this would not work because then these scumbags will not get be able to steal enough money.

Further to the Guardian article that I had reported a while back, I have contacted the same reporter to see if he will report another article with this update.

Keep fighting. Thanks to all who gave me advice.

Grizebeck

Thanks for the update

Coupon-mad

That is fantastic news!

I am wondering if there's any traction in your mother taking the MA to a leasehold tribunal to stop this attempt to undermine her lease and ride roughshod over her right to peaceful enjoyment for her and her visitors?
https://www.gov.uk/leasehold-property/leasehold-disputes

Or ask a solicitor about getting an injunction against the MA, to prevent them for allowing ANY parking agent to keep causing what is in effect a derogation from grant?

Grizebeck

Coupon-mad said:

That is fantastic news!

I am wondering if there's any traction in your mother taking the MA to a leasehold tribunal to stop this attempt to undermine her lease and ride roughshod over her right to peaceful enjoyment for her and her visitors?
https://www.gov.uk/leasehold-property/leasehold-disputes

Or ask a solicitor about getting an injunction against the MA, to prevent them for allowing ANY parking agent to keep causing what is in effect a derogation from grant?

Indeed
An injunction is certainly a worth while tool here, you don't need a solicitor for this, if you want help with the application itself please let me know (if you decide to go ahead please send me a private message and ill gladly help you with the application).

The fee for an injunction in the county court is £332 unless your mother qualifies for help with fees

An injunction can be done  against the MA and their "agents" (so a second named party as such is not needed)

As it would be in your mothers name then you would have to ask for the judges permission to speak on here behalf because the initial injunction application is a NON tracked application so there is no right for a "lay rep" to speak.  Although it shouldn't be an issue you would have to approach this slightly differently.

I would start of by writing to the managing agents by telling them what you intend to do and actions you intend to carry out.  Give them 14 days to comply and confirm, then apply for the "with notice injunction" , normally these are heard within a few weeks of the payment being made to the court counter.

DownwithPPCs

Thanks guys. @Grizebeck do you think it's worth asking for a sit-down with the MA (they are two laymen who set up the RMA, but I have suspicions they are getting underhand payments from the PPC.) They have refused to help so far. I can threaten them with the injunction unless they sack the parking company immediately? Or just go straight for the jugular with the injunction? I thought the injunction would only work against the PPC as they are the ones pursuing me, not the MA, even though it's the MA behind the scenes making the orders. They hide behind the PPC and their cowboy solicitor firms.

Grizebeck

DownwithPPCs said:

Thanks guys. @Grizebeck do you think it's worth asking for a sit-down with the MA (they are two laymen who set up the RMA, but I have suspicions they are getting underhand payments from the PPC.) They have refused to help so far. I can threaten them with the injunction unless they sack the parking company immediately? Or just go straight for the jugular with the injunction? I thought the injunction would only work against the PPC as they are the ones pursuing me, not the MA, even though it's the MA behind the scenes making the orders. They hide behind the PPC and their cowboy solicitor firms.

Its not a question of them helping, but more a case of you telling them what the situation and how its going to be resolved.

I would (yes its a white lie), tell them you are going to seek an injunction against them and their "agents" and upon being granted the injunction, you will get a costs order against them (the MA) and they will be personally liable for all costs incurred.  

I should add there is no right to costs for an injunction but i very much doubt they would know this, so its really a case of seeing if they will be worried about being exposed to costs and a result will then act in your interests

And think about what your asking them to do, sacking the parking firm really isn't going to cut it or be a realistic objective

Half_way

Grizebeck said:

DownwithPPCs said:

Thanks guys. @Grizebeck do you think it's worth asking for a sit-down with the MA (they are two laymen who set up the RMA, but I have suspicions they are getting underhand payments from the PPC.) They have refused to help so far. I can threaten them with the injunction unless they sack the parking company immediately? Or just go straight for the jugular with the injunction? I thought the injunction would only work against the PPC as they are the ones pursuing me, not the MA, even though it's the MA behind the scenes making the orders. They hide behind the PPC and their cowboy solicitor firms.

Its not a question of them helping, but more a case of you telling them what the situation and how its going to be resolved.

I would (yes its a white lie), tell them you are going to seek an injunction against them and their "agents" and upon being granted the injunction, you will get a costs order against them (the MA) and they will be personally liable for all costs incurred.  

I should add there is no right to costs for an injunction but i very much doubt they would know this, so its really a case of seeing if they will be worried about being exposed to costs and a result will then act in your interests

And think about what your asking them to do, sacking the parking firm really isn't going to cut it or be a realistic objective

As above, and as for this

HOWEVER, I still can't park in my mother's development, because I will still get ticketed, and even if I get the injunction order, if the MA change the Parking company the injunction becomes moot

The ones you must go for are the management company.

If the lease says you can park there then you can park there.

 keep on parking in the spot to which you are entitled to do so.

 As you have found out the management company will just swap out one PPC for another, like a discarded foul nappy.

 Parking companies do what parking companies do and the managemetn company should have carried out due diligence and avoided anything linked to the BPA or IPC . As principal the managemetn company will also be jointly and severally liable for the actions of its agents

 The fact that they know they are on bad ground, and should be aware of the court cases puts them in the position that they could be held liable for a GDPR claim

Coupon-mad

Read the account online about Roger Davey v UKPC.  He successfully sued UKPC for over £1000 (I think) being the legal costs of using a solicitor to get an emergency injunction. to stop them in a residential car park.

In your case, the application would be made by the resident (not you) against the MA and their agents. @Grizebeck offering to help is well worth considering.

patient_dream

DownwithPPCs said:

Hi all,

Claimant's rep was a moron who just kept repeating himself and arguing that I wasn't a leaseholder even though lease clearly gives rights to visitors of leaseholders. 

Well done.     PPM deserved it with their rubbish

Most of these so called legal reps are morons ...... which legal was the head honcho instructing THE moron ?

Grizebeck

patient_dream said:

DownwithPPCs said:

Hi all,

Claimant's rep was a moron who just kept repeating himself and arguing that I wasn't a leaseholder even though lease clearly gives rights to visitors of leaseholders. 

Well done.     PPM deserved it with their rubbish

Most of these so called legal reps are morons ...... which legal was the head honcho instructing THE moron ?

Bw legal are used by this firm

DownwithPPCs

Yes, BW Legal took over from Gladstones a few years back. I helped my mother beat Gladstones when the parking company was UKPC for parking in her own space, and now I have beaten PPM/BW Legal twice, regarding visiotrs spaces. @Grizebeck I have spoken to my mother and she is willing to do the injunction so would take you up on your kind offer if that is ok with you. I am more than happy to speak on her behalf. Although the judge today said the injunction would be against the PPC, he did not mention the MA. 

These two laymen who own the RMA, I have my worries about them, as they were meant to be rotating directors, which has not happened and now they are trying to force through a deed of novation. My mother has approached regarding the parking but they refused to help. Interestingly they use an MA to deal with everything and the property manager there who was initially sympathetic to my matter asked the PPC in an email to revoke the tickets and reinstate me on a blocked list (thats another story) but once the two guys who own the RMA got wind of it they gagged the property manager, who was told not to speak to me anymore and said that its in the hands of the solicitors. Real shady stuff. Would love to take them down.