Compensation from estate agent for mismeasuring 25 October 2022 at 11:56PM in House buying, renting & selling 52 replies 6K views

Ath_Wat

eddddy said:

An EA can't override consumer protection legislation by putting a standard disclaimer on the end of all their ads. (Just like a shop can't override consumer protection legislation by putting "No refunds for faulty goods" at the end of all their ads.)

Well a shop is selling you something - an estate agent is just putting you in touch with someone who wants to sell you something.  Surely consumer regulations only apply to estate agents' actual clients, ie, the vendors?

lincroft1710

fourmarks said:

BikingBud said:

Whether there is currently any liability or not it is not satisfactory that such leeway is given.

Measuring is not rocket science, the pyramids were built with simple devices and with the ready availability of laser measuring and scanning even the dullest of the dull EAs should be able to present accurate data.

I agree. You'd have thought 1st lesson at Estate Agent school would be how to use a ruler.

EAs have been using laser measurers rather than manual measuring devices for many years.


As someone (not an EA) who used 20m/30m measuring tapes and 2m measuring rods in their job for 35 yrs, the most likely mistake an EA would make using a manual measuring device would be putting down the wrong figure in their notes and if you've got the vendor prattling in your earhole it's easily done. 


It is carelessness rather than incapability

BikingBud

lincroft1710 said:

fourmarks said:

BikingBud said:

Whether there is currently any liability or not it is not satisfactory that such leeway is given.

Measuring is not rocket science, the pyramids were built with simple devices and with the ready availability of laser measuring and scanning even the dullest of the dull EAs should be able to present accurate data.

I agree. You'd have thought 1st lesson at Estate Agent school would be how to use a ruler.

EAs have been using laser measurers rather than manual measuring devices for many years.


As someone (not an EA) who used 20m/30m measuring tapes and 2m measuring rods in their job for 35 yrs, the most likely mistake an EA would make using a manual measuring device would be putting down the wrong figure in their notes and if you've got the vendor prattling in your earhole it's easily done. 


It is carelessness rather than incapability

I don't really care what excuse is given, incorrectly read, incorrectly recorded, inadequate skill, inaccurate tools or whether they only had elephants trunks or clown shoes to measure with, it should not be acceptable and accepted.  

But as with most things to do with property and housing the whole system is too lax, else the profiteers would not get their coin.

Basically, there are two types of calculation of living space that are currently practiced:

https://www.grundriss-schmiede.de/en/living-space-calculation

Calculation according to the Living Space Ordinance and calculation according to DIN standard 277.

The living space calculation according to the living space ordinance is the most common calculation. Here, the floor areas of the rooms actually to be used for living purposes and areas such as a balcony are added. Parts that can only be used to a limited extent are then subtracted. Terraces and balconies can be mentioned here as examples. Depending on the season, these areas may be used more or less and are therefore only counted as 25 to 50% of the living space. Cutbacks are also made for roof slopes. Since these are to be used only partly, can be deducted here even up to 100% of the floor space under a roof inclination.

When calculating living space according to DIN standard 277, the floor area of a property plus a surcharge of 3% for wall construction with plaster and wallpaper is used. In addition, a comparatively large amount of floor space is taken into account and rooms are added together. Among other things, it is the basis for calculating rental space in industrial and office buildings. In this calculation, living space and usable space are often equated, which leads to high deviations compared to the calculation according to the Living Space Ordinance.

Both types of calculation basically lead to a valid and recognized living space figure. In principle, one should use the calculation according to the living space ordinance, since this is the most common method and is recognized in court or is used there as a calculation method in the event of a dispute.

elsien

Given that the OP hasn’t been back to explain any further, we have no idea if it was a huge mismeasurement (specsavers anyone for not noticing?) or whether his settee sticks out by an inch or so,  which is slightly different. 

housebuyer143

BikingBud said:

lincroft1710 said:

fourmarks said:

BikingBud said:

Whether there is currently any liability or not it is not satisfactory that such leeway is given.

Measuring is not rocket science, the pyramids were built with simple devices and with the ready availability of laser measuring and scanning even the dullest of the dull EAs should be able to present accurate data.

I agree. You'd have thought 1st lesson at Estate Agent school would be how to use a ruler.

EAs have been using laser measurers rather than manual measuring devices for many years.


As someone (not an EA) who used 20m/30m measuring tapes and 2m measuring rods in their job for 35 yrs, the most likely mistake an EA would make using a manual measuring device would be putting down the wrong figure in their notes and if you've got the vendor prattling in your earhole it's easily done. 


It is carelessness rather than incapability

I don't really care what excuse is given, incorrectly read, incorrectly recorded, inadequate skill, inaccurate tools or whether they only had elephants trunks or clown shoes to measure with, it should not be acceptable and accepted.  

But as with most things to do with property and housing the whole system is too lax, else the profiteers would not get their coin.

Basically, there are two types of calculation of living space that are currently practiced:

https://www.grundriss-schmiede.de/en/living-space-calculation

Calculation according to the Living Space Ordinance and calculation according to DIN standard 277.

The living space calculation according to the living space ordinance is the most common calculation. Here, the floor areas of the rooms actually to be used for living purposes and areas such as a balcony are added. Parts that can only be used to a limited extent are then subtracted. Terraces and balconies can be mentioned here as examples. Depending on the season, these areas may be used more or less and are therefore only counted as 25 to 50% of the living space. Cutbacks are also made for roof slopes. Since these are to be used only partly, can be deducted here even up to 100% of the floor space under a roof inclination.

When calculating living space according to DIN standard 277, the floor area of a property plus a surcharge of 3% for wall construction with plaster and wallpaper is used. In addition, a comparatively large amount of floor space is taken into account and rooms are added together. Among other things, it is the basis for calculating rental space in industrial and office buildings. In this calculation, living space and usable space are often equated, which leads to high deviations compared to the calculation according to the Living Space Ordinance.

Both types of calculation basically lead to a valid and recognized living space figure. In principle, one should use the calculation according to the living space ordinance, since this is the most common method and is recognized in court or is used there as a calculation method in the event of a dispute.

You know most estate agents have little to no training and just get sent to do this stuff having stepped into the job for the first time ever.
I used to work at a large national agent and this stuff is common place. Had a new starter running the branch after 2 days on the job, she didn't even know how to use the system. 

It's not likely incompetence or laziness, it's more they have no idea how to use the tools they are given.

Gycraig

aoleks said:

No, forget about it. Who buys furniture based on a floorplan, haha?

you won’t get compensation.

To be fair I sell sofas and a lot of my customers are buying based on floor plans because they don’t want to be without furniture for up to 12 weeks when they move in. 

juliedee4663

This really doesn't ring true. Surely the cost of estate agents, removals, solicitors, potential stamp duty and all the other costs associated with moving far outweigh buying new furniture to fit

BikingBud

housebuyer143 said:

BikingBud said:

lincroft1710 said:

fourmarks said:

BikingBud said:

Whether there is currently any liability or not it is not satisfactory that such leeway is given.

Measuring is not rocket science, the pyramids were built with simple devices and with the ready availability of laser measuring and scanning even the dullest of the dull EAs should be able to present accurate data.

I agree. You'd have thought 1st lesson at Estate Agent school would be how to use a ruler.

EAs have been using laser measurers rather than manual measuring devices for many years.


As someone (not an EA) who used 20m/30m measuring tapes and 2m measuring rods in their job for 35 yrs, the most likely mistake an EA would make using a manual measuring device would be putting down the wrong figure in their notes and if you've got the vendor prattling in your earhole it's easily done. 


It is carelessness rather than incapability

I don't really care what excuse is given, incorrectly read, incorrectly recorded, inadequate skill, inaccurate tools or whether they only had elephants trunks or clown shoes to measure with, it should not be acceptable and accepted.  

But as with most things to do with property and housing the whole system is too lax, else the profiteers would not get their coin.

Basically, there are two types of calculation of living space that are currently practiced:

https://www.grundriss-schmiede.de/en/living-space-calculation

Calculation according to the Living Space Ordinance and calculation according to DIN standard 277.

The living space calculation according to the living space ordinance is the most common calculation. Here, the floor areas of the rooms actually to be used for living purposes and areas such as a balcony are added. Parts that can only be used to a limited extent are then subtracted. Terraces and balconies can be mentioned here as examples. Depending on the season, these areas may be used more or less and are therefore only counted as 25 to 50% of the living space. Cutbacks are also made for roof slopes. Since these are to be used only partly, can be deducted here even up to 100% of the floor space under a roof inclination.

When calculating living space according to DIN standard 277, the floor area of a property plus a surcharge of 3% for wall construction with plaster and wallpaper is used. In addition, a comparatively large amount of floor space is taken into account and rooms are added together. Among other things, it is the basis for calculating rental space in industrial and office buildings. In this calculation, living space and usable space are often equated, which leads to high deviations compared to the calculation according to the Living Space Ordinance.

Both types of calculation basically lead to a valid and recognized living space figure. In principle, one should use the calculation according to the living space ordinance, since this is the most common method and is recognized in court or is used there as a calculation method in the event of a dispute.

You know most estate agents have little to no training and just get sent to do this stuff having stepped into the job for the first time ever.
I used to work at a large national agent and this stuff is common place. Had a new starter running the branch after 2 days on the job, she didn't even know how to use the system. 

It's not likely incompetence or laziness, it's more they have no idea how to use the tools they are given.

Isn't that the very definition of incompetence?

Bear in mind incompetence is a statement of fact not a reflection on the individual's dedication, application or personal skills. Provisional drivers will be incompetent until they pass the driving test and some may (often) continue to demonstrate very limited competence after passing their test.

But the point I was  trying to make is that this is allowed to happen when clearly there are much better ways of marketing and selling houses that provide safeguards for both purchaser and vendor. However, in the UK we appear quite content to allow the wild west to continue and hide behind "caveat emptor". 

newsgroupmonkey_

I love a thread like this where the OP drops a bomb then never to be heard of again

lincroft1710

BikingBud said:

lincroft1710 said:

fourmarks said:

BikingBud said:

Whether there is currently any liability or not it is not satisfactory that such leeway is given.

Measuring is not rocket science, the pyramids were built with simple devices and with the ready availability of laser measuring and scanning even the dullest of the dull EAs should be able to present accurate data.

I agree. You'd have thought 1st lesson at Estate Agent school would be how to use a ruler.

EAs have been using laser measurers rather than manual measuring devices for many years.


As someone (not an EA) who used 20m/30m measuring tapes and 2m measuring rods in their job for 35 yrs, the most likely mistake an EA would make using a manual measuring device would be putting down the wrong figure in their notes and if you've got the vendor prattling in your earhole it's easily done. 


It is carelessness rather than incapability

I don't really care what excuse is given, incorrectly read, incorrectly recorded, inadequate skill, inaccurate tools or whether they only had elephants trunks or clown shoes to measure with, it should not be acceptable and accepted.  

But as with most things to do with property and housing the whole system is too lax, else the profiteers would not get their coin.

Basically, there are two types of calculation of living space that are currently practiced:

https://www.grundriss-schmiede.de/en/living-space-calculation

Calculation according to the Living Space Ordinance and calculation according to DIN standard 277.

The living space calculation according to the living space ordinance is the most common calculation. Here, the floor areas of the rooms actually to be used for living purposes and areas such as a balcony are added. Parts that can only be used to a limited extent are then subtracted. Terraces and balconies can be mentioned here as examples. Depending on the season, these areas may be used more or less and are therefore only counted as 25 to 50% of the living space. Cutbacks are also made for roof slopes. Since these are to be used only partly, can be deducted here even up to 100% of the floor space under a roof inclination.

When calculating living space according to DIN standard 277, the floor area of a property plus a surcharge of 3% for wall construction with plaster and wallpaper is used. In addition, a comparatively large amount of floor space is taken into account and rooms are added together. Among other things, it is the basis for calculating rental space in industrial and office buildings. In this calculation, living space and usable space are often equated, which leads to high deviations compared to the calculation according to the Living Space Ordinance.

Both types of calculation basically lead to a valid and recognized living space figure. In principle, one should use the calculation according to the living space ordinance, since this is the most common method and is recognized in court or is used there as a calculation method in the event of a dispute.

I don't see that UK EAs adopting German floor measurement standards will stop measurement inaccuracies. If the person doing the measuring in ill trained, incompetent or careless, mistakes will still happen