UKPC restricted area invoice

Civic2056

I'm a delivery driver. Google maps took me down a road and I noticed this sign. Turned around but of course there's a camera. 

I have absolutely zero intention of paying a private company anything when I didn't even get a chance to park , I turned around. The sign must be new as it's not on street view 2022. They have an email address should I contact them? Obviously I have no intention of giving them my name or anything like that. How likely are they to take me to court. Should I just ignore or should I respond to any invoice with an appeal https://photos.app.goo.gl/aAhfp6Q4FxaMyTCY9

Le_Kirk

Doesn't look that new, it's broken (unless that was you)!  All the advice you need is to be found in the NEWBIE announcement on the first page of the forum.  The sign didn't tell you how to become a registered user or even that you need to be, until you'd seen the sign - so void for impossibility.

Civic2056

Le_Kirk said:

Doesn't look that new, it's broken (unless that was you)!  All the advice you need is to be found in the NEWBIE announcement on the first page of the forum.  The sign didn't tell you how to become a registered user or even that you need to be, until you'd seen the sign - so void for impossibility.

Le_Kirk said:

Doesn't look that new, it's broken (unless that was you)!  All the advice you need is to be found in the NEWBIE announcement on the first page of the forum.  The sign didn't tell you how to become a registered user or even that you need to be, until you'd seen the sign - so void for impossibility.

Maybe someone did it out of anger it wasn't me! I went back to take a picture of it and someone had already accidentally gone through and turned around. Not to mention there's about six businesses advertising themselves and telling you to go through that way. Plus an older sign said "deliveries" , and I was delivering a pizza. Crooks. 

KeithP

Where exactly did this event take place?

Le_Kirk

Pretty good distortion, you can see the scuff marks of the high-sided vehicle that distorted it!

Civic2056

KeithP said:

Where exactly did this event take place?

Nope that was my photograph. It's not on GSV 2022 hence me suggesting it must be new. Here it is roughly here this road Romford, England

https://maps.app.goo.gl/m73LZ6YJYRsWKiKN9

Umkomaas

Civic2056 said:

I'm a delivery driver. Google maps took me down a road and I noticed this sign. Turned around but of course there's a camera. 

I have absolutely zero intention of paying a private company anything when I didn't even get a chance to park , I turned around. The sign must be new as it's not on street view 2022. 

1. They have an email address should I contact them? Obviously I have no intention of giving them my name or anything like that. 

2. How likely are they to take me to court. 

3. Should I just ignore or should I respond to any invoice with an appeal

1. Wait for them to contact you. How would they be able to respond to any contact that lacks any personal detail from you. Anonymous correspondence from an anonymous person?

2. Who knows?  Seems like you haven't even received a PCN yet (have you?).  A court claim can happen at any time within 6 years of the parking event. Our crystal ball isn't too good at predicting of how an unpredictable PPC might act between now and 2028!

3. Never ignore a private parking ticket (invoice). The NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post, tells you how to start to deal with one, once received. 

Civic2056

 Does the sign refer to the car park or just entering the land itself? A family member who works for citizens advice has suggested that it refers simply to the car park, so providing I haven't parked on their land there is no breach of - another delivery driver has said he has been there before with no fine (didn't park either) 

fisherjim

As Le_Kirk says this is is ridiculous What is a "registered user" apparently the sign says you will find out on signs after entering the car park.

The site owners have also placed a sign stating "deliveries" and "service road" inviting drivers in with no restriction then the muppets at UKPC trap you with a further sign of their own, typical honeytrap.

I would start by complaining to the owners: Royal London Asset Management, or their agents Savilles (Dominic Rodbourn drodbourne@savills.com)

https://cdn.completelyretail.co.uk/media/scheme/3/3214/CG_Gallows_Corner_Retail_Park_Romford_brochure_2021-06-23-09-51-03.pdf

Civic2056

fisherjim said:

As Le_Kirk says this is is ridiculous What is a "registered user" apparently the sign says you will find out on signs after entering the car park.

The site owners have also placed a sign stating "deliveries" and "service road" inviting drivers in with no restriction then the muppets at UKPC trap you with a further sign of their own, typical honeytrap.

I would start by complaining to the owners: Royal London Asset Management, or their agents Savilles (Dominic Rodbourn drodbourne@savills.com)

https://cdn.completelyretail.co.uk/media/scheme/3/3214/CG_Gallows_Corner_Retail_Park_Romford_brochure_2021-06-23-09-51-03.pdf

Ok here is my draft email. Sending from an alternate email account which doesn't have my real name.

"Dear Dominic,

Yesterday I was required to deliver to a premises within the Bryant Avenue area. As per my sat nav, I was directed down the service road, which is signposted for Deliveries. 

As it turns out, the road did not lead to where I intended to go, so I turned around and went back out, when I then saw this sign.

I appreciate you may not be responsible for installing this sign, but you have chosen UKPC to manage your car parks and access roads. This sign is very problematic. Firstly, what is a "registered user"? The sign does not attempt to define it. It merely suggests one can find out what a registered user is by entering the car park, which the sign also implies is a breach of their contract (UKPC) if you aren't one of those "registered users".

There are several different businesses which all signpost themselves along this service road. I have not seen the camera and sign on Google street view for this year, so it must be recent.

Can you confirm whether or not a person would be fined for simply entering the site, rather than parking there. If you don't want people to access the site, perhaps you should consider installing a gate rather than entrapping motorists in this way. I saw another motorist do the same thing as I had done. 

Any fine someone receives for simply entering the car park should be void on the grounds of impossibility. 

So, just to summarise:

1) please confirm whether or not someone would be fined for simply entering the car park/service road, but not actually parking there. 

2) will you heed my advice, and improve signage around the site or install a gate IF the sign refers to the road rather than just the car park being off limits to any non "registered users"

3) Please can you actually tell me who the "registered users" are. It appears UKPC have made this rather fundamental omission from their sign.

Regards"

Civic2056

As said, my dad who works for citizens advice suggests the contractal arrangement only relates to the car park, and the ANPR system is to catch the time of people entering, and then leaving the car park, so if I was there for about ten seconds you'd think I wouldn't have parked etc. Says if I do get fined, appeal, do not pay, if they take you to court the judge will laugh it out. Which it appears would definitely be the case

- unclear signage, one from UKPC, and another from the site owners signposting deliveries, not to mention several businesses signposting their customers along the road.

- Failing to define "registered users" unless you actually enter the car park.

- Failing to specify whether car parking is in breach of the contractr or if simply entering the road is

Also, I didn't dare enter the road again to check the terms and conditions, no doubt written in miniscule characters on a small sign, from reading online it appears the standard UKPC is £100, £60 if paid within X timeframe. I believe the UK government ruled that private parking fines can be no more than a maximum of £50. So there's a violation of that too. Presumably, if its a max of £50, that means paying within x time frame would also be about £25.

Also, because I left within 5 minutes (10-20 seconds to be honest), any fine would also be
 void.

 https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/02/private-car-parking-fines-cap-to-be-reduced-by-half-from-p100-to/#:~:text=The majority of parking tickets,they pay within 14 days.

So it seems I have quite a lot of ammunition to use against them if they're stupid enough to try and fine me.