Will dispute

fiveyearplan

My father in law died earlier this year and apart from his 6 grandchildren and 3 great-grandchildren (3 named great grandchildren in the will however 2 more great grandchildren were born before his death but the will was never changed to include them - he had dementia so I don't think any change of will would have bee valid at that point anyway) each receiving a gift of £2,000, everything is to be split between his 4 children.

My husband is the eldest, the next son down is the executor, the next son nobody speaks to and he hasn't been included in any discussions, and the youngest daughter.  

The second son and the daughter are the ones with the 2 great grandchildren mentioned above who are not in the will. My husband has potentially agreed that they should get the gift of £2,000 - the other brother has not been consulted.  Although I don't speak to this brother any more I still think it fair that he should be included in discussions.

So that was one issue.

The other issue is a photo album my FIL put together of his time in the navy after WWII.  Two of the grandchildren want this item and my husband has said he wants to have it, I'm sure the sister will pipe up that she wants it too seeing as all possessions were given to the 4 children and that would definitely take priority over the grandchildren (the grandchildren who want the album are our son and his sister's daughter).  We have gone to a book maker who has quoted £350 per copy to replicate the book.  My main question is who should pay for the copy (I think it would be fair for the people who want the book to split the cost evenly and then decide who gets the original.  Where do we stand legally.

I should also mention that the sister has all the jewellery and the album at her home.

Sorry for the long post - any advice gratefully accepted!

Choirgrl

If the proposal is that each of the four siblings gets £1k less so that the two youngest  great grandchildren can each have £2k, then ‘the brother who nobody talks to’ would need to agree. The Executor can’t make a change that results in him receiving less than his legal entitlement without him agreeing. Alternatively, the other three siblings could each give up £1333.33 so they make up the £4k between them. Family dynamics may determine whether everyone feels £333.33 is a pice worth paying for not dealing with the other brother. Or your husband could agree to give up £1k, and leave it to the other two siblings to choose if they want to deal with the brother or contribute £1.5k each. 

On the photos, I don’t think the law will be helpful. Maybe they could cut cards/ draw straws / pick names out of a hat to decide who gets the original and then all the people involved contribute to copies. (So, if four of them want a copy, one gets the original and all four of them contribute equally to the total price of three copies.)

kazwookie

Get the book scanned, then upload photos on to a safe place on the internet, then everyone can look as and when they want / or they can print off if they want to.

I would give £2k to the other GGKs.

I would inform the other son in writing what is going on.

If solicitors get involved and it starts he said she said type stuff it is going to cost big time in £££

Marcon

fiveyearplan said:

My father in law died earlier this year and apart from his 6 grandchildren and 3 great-grandchildren (3 named great grandchildren in the will however 2 more great grandchildren were born before his death but the will was never changed to include them - he had dementia so I don't think any change of will would have bee valid at that point anyway) each receiving a gift of £2,000, everything is to be split between his 4 children.

My husband is the eldest, the next son down is the executor, the next son nobody speaks to and he hasn't been included in any discussions, and the youngest daughter.  

The second son and the daughter are the ones with the 2 great grandchildren mentioned above who are not in the will. My husband has potentially agreed that they should get the gift of £2,000 - the other brother has not been consulted.  Although I don't speak to this brother any more I still think it fair that he should be included in discussions.

So that was one issue.

The other issue is a photo album my FIL put together of his time in the navy after WWII.  Two of the grandchildren want this item and my husband has said he wants to have it, I'm sure the sister will pipe up that she wants it too seeing as all possessions were given to the 4 children and that would definitely take priority over the grandchildren (the grandchildren who want the album are our son and his sister's daughter).  We have gone to a book maker who has quoted £350 per copy to replicate the book.  My main question is who should pay for the copy (I think it would be fair for the people who want the book to split the cost evenly and then decide who gets the original.  Where do we stand legally.

I should also mention that the sister has all the jewellery and the album at her home.

Sorry for the long post - any advice gratefully accepted!

Your post is all about what you think and want. Maybe let your husband deal with his siblings, since he knows them a great better than you do - and this isn't the moment to let your husband pass the buck to you, even if he wants to! Otherwise guess who'll then get the blame for any family rift, ongoing arguments etc.

It'll be for the executor to exercise the wisdom of Solomon in terms of who gets the original photo album - and whether the 'other' brother should be consulted. Not your decision, happily.

fiveyearplan

Thank you Choirgirl.  That's exactly the way I see it too.  

Thanks also, Kazwookie.  Even though I'm not speaking to the other brother myself I still think it is only fair (and legal) to let him have a say.

elsien

kazwookie said:

Get the book scanned, then upload photos on to a safe place on the internet, then everyone can look as and when they want / or they can print off if they want to.

I would give £2k to the other GGKs.

I would inform the other son in writing what is going on.

If solicitors get involved and it starts he said she said type stuff it is going to cost big time in £££

As already said above, you can’t unilaterally change the terms of a will without the consent of the beneficiaries that it will affect. Informing is not sufficient. He needs to agree. 

fiveyearplan

Thank you for your input Marcon.  As you say, it is nothing to do with me.  I came on this forum as my husband asked me to.  I've only stated what I think is fair and what I have said to my husband as he has asked me what I think.  Any decision he makes in communicating with his family is his decision and he knows that.  We have been together for 35 years so he values my input. To be clear - none of his family speak to the other brother.  

cymruchris

fiveyearplan said:

none of his family speak to the other brother.  

Even though that's the case - the will is the will. What's written needs to be enacted. It's not up to anyone else to think/decide/interpret what he may or may not have wanted in relation to things that happened after the will was written. If those beneficiaries between them decide that their share should be distributed differently, then they have to come to agreement on who gets what, and agree. The one that nobody talks to can't be just told that they've decided to make a change. 

fiveyearplan

cymruchris said:

fiveyearplan said:

none of his family speak to the other brother.  

Even though that's the case - the will is the will. What's written needs to be enacted. It's not up to anyone else to think/decide/interpret what he may or may not have wanted in relation to things that happened after the will was written. If those beneficiaries between them decide that their share should be distributed differently, then they have to come to agreement on who gets what, and agree. The one that nobody talks to can't be just told that they've decided to make a change. 

My husband totally agrees with this, it is the other brother and sister who think they can split things as they see fit.  He is going to reply to them this evening.

elsien

The responsibility comes down to the person executing the will. They are the ones who would carry the liability for any challenges if they didn’t distribute as the will states without a proper deed of variation.
What they think it’s fair or not fair really doesn’t come into it legally speaking.
It’s also up to the executor to deal with the personal possessions including those that the sister has at the moment.

Savvy_Sue

elsien said:

It’s also up to the executor to deal with the personal possessions including those that the sister has at the moment.

Well yes and no ... If Father gave mum's jewellery to the sister, then it's no longer part of his estate, and the same with the photos.

If sister just took them 'for safe keeping', they should be regarded as part of his estate. But unless the will specifically names any of those items, then the executor is no further forward in deciding what to do with them. If sister wants the jewellery, then it should be valued and her 'share' of the estate reduced accordingly, but then the same should be applied to any other keepsakes and trinkets - and unless the jewellery (or anything else) is really valuable, that may be too much like hard work. 

Mum's solicitor expressly advised her NOT to leave identified items in the will, because of the difficulties it could cause if they either couldn't be found, or seemed to be in someone else's possession already. So she started giving things away, nothing of great value, but if we said we wanted something we could usually have it. There was something we all wanted, and she gave it to me, while in her right mind ...