Builder - red flags or normal?

comeandgo

The company number at the bottom of their web pages is for a company called 24 British Builders Ltd and they filed micro accounts for year end 2021.  They had 13 employees and are using sub contractors which is not always a bad thing but does add to the costs.  Why don’t you ask around?  Even the shop assistant or ask on Facebook?  You are at a disadvantage by supplying so much of the materials, only a few builders will work this way.

billy2shots

I don't mean to sound harsh but you seem to be a fair bit OTT..
I'm not surprised the builder has declined the job. 

Letting anyone in to our homes to do work is a big deal but I (possibly wrongly) felt like you were doing a multi plot build from scratch rather than a kitchen and bathroom with your expectations on said builder. 

In my experience, go with someone recommend and trust them as the professional. Don't try and micro manage them or it won't have a chance of going well. 

leypt1

billy2shots said:

I don't mean to sound harsh but you seem to be a fair bit OTT..
I'm not surprised the builder has declined the job. 

Letting anyone in to our homes to do work is a big deal but I (possibly wrongly) felt like you were doing a multi plot build from scratch rather than a kitchen and bathroom with your expectations on said builder. 

In my experience, go with someone recommend and trust them as the professional. Don't try and micro manage them or it won't have a chance of going well. 

Would you pay 13k/19k on day one of works when your builder has also asked you to provide almost all materials?

My "expectations" are:
- a payment schedule that doesn't put me at massive risk of being robbed

- agreement on who pays for what so I don't have to find an extra £5k halfway through works, with the alternative being the builders walk away and leave my house as a building site

- for building control to be satisfied that my house won't fall down following a massive hole being knocked through an external wall

I explicitly said in my previous post that I wanted guidance on what a proportionate request was, hence posting for advice

What do you think is proportionate to ask for?

leypt1

comeandgo said:

The company number at the bottom of their web pages is for a company called 24 British Builders Ltd and they filed micro accounts for year end 2021.  They had 13 employees and are using sub contractors which is not always a bad thing but does add to the costs.  Why don’t you ask around?  Even the shop assistant or ask on Facebook?  You are at a disadvantage by supplying so much of the materials, only a few builders will work this way.

Thanks you! I've asked some relatives and neighbors and have a few recommendations to follow up. Fingers crossed it works out! Really keen to start off these interactions on the right foot and not set myself up for failure.

What materials should I be supplying, if any? Would it be ok for me to supply the kitchen units, tiles, and bathroom suites?

This is for aesthetic reasons - tbh everything else I would rather the builder supplies as they know what would work. It's only because previous builders have asked us to supply loads that I'm not sure what's normal

leypt1

SPnomore said:

Perhaps the builder didn't want to do business with someone already posting on a well known public forum, stating they don't trust the builder, who wasn't the first choice but the cheapest, wanting to "push back" on agreed payment schedules and already "stretching themselves" and with a history of "terrible builders" in the past and are already citing numerous "issues". Don't blame them for giving the OP "some unexpectedly good news" by saying he wasn't comfortable working with them. Trust has to go both ways if they want the work done satisfactorily.

What agreement? We didn't agree anything

The first time payment schedules or a detailed responsibility breakdown was discussed was when we raised it and suggested we pay in stages

He said nope, 13k upfront
We said no and he sailed off into the sunset
We'd already been pressured to pay a deposit before any of that discussion took place

Is that what you consider good practice?

Maybe it would have been fine but I'm 100% sure that there are 1000s of inexperienced renovators getting taken for a ride in situations like this because they get shamed for even questioning what's normal practice 

I'm glad I sought advice and took it and I'm glad it worked out for me

billy2shots

leypt1 said:

SPnomore said:

Perhaps the builder didn't want to do business with someone already posting on a well known public forum, stating they don't trust the builder, who wasn't the first choice but the cheapest, wanting to "push back" on agreed payment schedules and already "stretching themselves" and with a history of "terrible builders" in the past and are already citing numerous "issues". Don't blame them for giving the OP "some unexpectedly good news" by saying he wasn't comfortable working with them. Trust has to go both ways if they want the work done satisfactorily.

What agreement? We didn't agree anything

The first time payment schedules or a detailed responsibility breakdown was discussed was when we raised it and suggested we pay in stages

He said nope, 13k upfront
We said no and he sailed off into the sunset
We'd already been pressured to pay a deposit before any of that discussion took place

Is that what you consider good practice?

Maybe it would have been fine but I'm 100% sure that there are 1000s of inexperienced renovators getting taken for a ride in situations like this because they get shamed for even questioning what's normal practice 

I'm glad I sought advice and took it and I'm glad it worked out for me

You lost your builder?

HampshireH

I don't understand why you would supply anything for asthetic purposes unless they say they can't buy it?

Just tell them what you want and ask that they will supply and fit for you.

If they can't then of course you would then provide it for them to fit 

Ideally you want all this in your quote (what is being supplied and what spec so you have no issues later on)

Otherwise the quote won't be accurate. But you already have the prices etc so you can provide this as advertised and they will add their labour costs and maybe any discount they can get from their trade account.

I.e. Supply and fit of 10m2 pink sparkly diamond  tiles - £1000

Or

Fit of 10m2 tiles as supplied by customer (labour only) £400

Or whatever 

Alternatively the quote is set as very basic but is inclusive of the attached spec and all your breakdown as above is in that as to who does what

When agreed it's all signed and confirmed

leypt1

HampshireH said:

I don't understand why you would supply anything for asthetic purposes unless they say they can't buy it?

Just tell them what you want and ask that they will supply and fit for you.

If they can't then of course you would then provide it for them to fit 

Ideally you want all this in your quote (what is being supplied and what spec so you have no issues later on)

Otherwise the quote won't be accurate. But you already have the prices etc so you can provide this as advertised and they will add their labour costs and maybe any discount they can get from their trade account.

I.e. Supply and fit of 10m2 pink sparkly diamond  tiles - £1000

Or

Fit of 10m2 tiles as supplied by customer (labour only) £400

Or whatever 

Alternatively the quote is set as very basic but is inclusive of the attached spec and all your breakdown as above is in that as to who does what

When agreed it's all signed and confirmed

Thank you!! This is super helpful