Advice on Plan A

Topper66

Hi, I'm a newbie to this forum so please be patient if I'm making any newbie mistakes.  I've read a number of threads on here before posting, including the FAQ's, plan A and plan B.  I'm ready to embark on plan A!!

My story is probably similar to many others told on this forum.  I received a PCN from GroupNexus yesterday (18/10/2022) dated 10/10/2022 for not parking within a marked bay.  GroupsNexus are acting on behalf of the town shopping centre. The (very small) car park was full and my car was parked on the end of the row of bays but not within a bay (if that makes sense).  I've seen many others park there over the years as it does not cause an obstruction and avoids double yellow lines and disabled bays.  It was parked there for approximately 5-10 minutes.  That was clearly long enough for someone to take a few photos of it to be used as evidence.

Do I have a case for appeal?

The PCN has the usual blurb about paying the lesser £60 within 14 days, 8 of which passed before I got the letter.  It mentions the PoFA Section 4 2012, sending details of POPLA if my appeal is rejected and them being a BPA member. If I can then I'll attach some photos of the signage in the car park for reference.  I would just like some advice on how to approach plan A.

Firstly in my email to the shopping centre should I disclose who the driver was or just avoid all mention of it?  I know I should avoid it during plan B.  When making a case for how the car was parked am I best to word it as though I'm the registered keeper writing on behalf of the driver?  All I'm thinking here is if I discuss the details of what happened then it makes it sound like I was the driver?

Also I assume it's best to draft my own letter for plan A based on the circumstances rather than follow a template on here?

I hope to point out that I wasn't causing an obstruction or doing anything illegal, the car was parked for a very brief amount of time and I might even mention my heart bypass less than a year ago.  Not sure.

One last thing is how concerned I should be about the 14 day deadline.  If I go to plan B should I submit my appeal before the 14 days is up?

Thanks in advance.

Topper66

I have contacted the shopping centre.  I'll see what they come back with.

Fruitcake

Plan A includes complaining to your MP.

I hope you complained to the landowner as keeper, although the NTK may well have been PoFA compliant.

What was the date of the alleged event?

Where did this occur? It may have cropped up here before.

Wait a reasonable length of time before appealing so you know what the shopping centre's response is, but don't miss the appeal time.

Get photos of the site including the location where the vehicle was parked. 

Coupon-mad

I hope to point out that I wasn't causing an obstruction or doing anything illegal, the car was parked for a very brief amount of time and I might even mention my heart bypass less than a year ago.  Not sure.

I would.

You meet the definition of disability.

Only relevant if you were in the car, of course, in which case you could say to the landowner that there are not enough accessible bays for the needs of local disabled visitors and that end space allowed you to comfortably get in and out of the car.

@Grizebeck has observed that CP Plus do use POFA notices when they are issuing them based on manual photos (as opposed to ANPR cameras).

Therefore, you may as well be open in your complaint about who was driving, and ask the landowner to please cancel it and consider increasing the number of accessible bays. 

Umkomaas

Was this a windscreen ticket?  Have you subsequently had a letter about it through the post?

Date of parking event?
Date of Issue on (any) letter through the post?

1505grandad

Just a thought  -  if the company are relying on a sign as the contract with the driver should the sign include the company number?

(From the website of ParkingEye  -  "The sign must include your company information, too.")

Grizebeck

Coupon-mad said:

I hope to point out that I wasn't causing an obstruction or doing anything illegal, the car was parked for a very brief amount of time and I might even mention my heart bypass less than a year ago.  Not sure.

I would.

You meet the definition of disability.

Only relevant if you were in the car, of course, in which case you could say to the landowner that there are not enough accessible bays for the needs of local disabled visitors and that end space allowed you to comfortably get in and out of the car.

@Grizebeck has observed that CP Plus do use POFA notices when they are issuing them based on manual photos (as opposed to ANPR cameras).

Therefore, you may as well be open in your complaint about who was driving, and ask the landowner to please cancel it and consider increasing the number of accessible bays. 

Indeed

If your PCN starts with 20000 its a NON POFA notice
If it starts with CP its a POFA, notice or is a short number then its again like to be POFA notice.

Topper66

Thanks for all your replies.  I have a few questions to answer.

I meant to complain to my MP but completely forgot.  So thanks for the reminder, I'll try and do that today.  Any thoughts on what I should mention?  I might just forward on the same email I sent to the landowner.  Should I mention to him who the driver was?

In my email to the landowner I did complain as registered keeper (the PCN already states me as such).  I avoided wording it in any way that would suggest I was driving.  The PCN details are:

The PCN Ref numbers starts with CP and it mentioned PoFA.
The event date was 04/10/2022
The Date of Notice is 10/10/2022
The appeal time is 28 days ("beginning the day after this notice is given") but obviously this takes me past the 14 threshold for paying the reduced amount.  I'm guessing that's a risk I just need to take.  If they reject the appeal I get another 14 days to pay at which point they will send me details of POPLA.

I am trying not to disclose any information here which may link this thread to me or this PCN so I'm not sure I should be stating where it took place.  However I have search the forum for other instances at the same place and I only found one.  It was about a guy whose wife collapse in the town centre and he had to go to hospital with her, leading to an overstay in the car park.  Naturally they dropped the charge but this doesn't help me much.

I mentioned my heart bypass in my email and how using this car park provides a shorter walk.

Also I didn't get a windscreen ticket.  The first and only notice I have received is this PCN which arrived two days ago.

I'm not sure about the Company Number tactic.  Not sure how far that would get me.

As this is a PoFA notice and they used ground level manual photos should I be open in my appeal about who the driver was from here forward?  They gave two photos but is it possible they have more, including photos of the driver?

Apologies for another long post...

Topper66

I've had a reply from the landowner saying I need to contact Nexus and go through their appeals process...

Coupon-mad

Ok, so that's what you do, and the NEWBIES thread already explains POPLA.

Topper66

Just waiting to see what how my MP replies before I move to plan B.