Chance of FPN for crossing an asymmetric red light on a specific lane?

Ermia

There is a weird junction in this location with four traffic lights like this:

• a four-state traffic light on the left-hand of the street (3 colours + green arrow for straight away)
• and three-state classic traffic lights close to the right-hand lane.

When all the lights were red, I stopped at the junction (in the same lane where the brown car is in the picture below, but before the line).
 
Moments later, the green arrow on the left-hand side of the road turned on (go straight only), BUT the lights on the right-hand side of the road were still red (they do not have a green arrow bulb at all).

At that moment (when the lights were exactly like the picture below), I thought the green arrow on the left-hand side of the road also applies to the other lane because I also wanted to go straight. Therefore, I moved off, crossed the line, and went straight. But then I Googled about the rules and did not figure out whether I was allowed to cross the line if the traffic light in my lane is still all red. 

What could happen to me? Any chance of getting a fine?




To give more context, the markings on both roads allow for going straight now. However, the markings have been different in the past:

• Until 2012, the right-hand lane was for turning right only
• Around 2018: both lanes were for going straight only 
• Now, the right-hand lane is for going straight AND turning right

and that is possibly why the traffic light configuration is asymmetric. It might have been installed when the right-hand lane was only for turning right.

Nonetheless, what matters is how should I have treated it now. So the current configuration is like this:





My questions are:

1. Did I have the right to cross the junction from the right-hand lane, at the time that the red light was red on my own lane but the go-straight green arrow was also on at the left-hand lane? Or have I broken the law?
2. Is there a chance that I could get FPN there? There was no big yellow camera there but there could be newer small ones or the council cameras. If they catch me crossing the line with only the right-hand red light in the picture, I could get an FPN, right? I do have dashcam footage but they could still argue there is a reason that the light on my lane behaves differently and I should have waited... and thus prosecute me (?)

Grey_Critic

It is all about Lane Dicipline - see it every day cars in wrong lane at junctions

Ermia

Grey_Critic said:

It is all about Lane Dicipline - see it every day cars in wrong lane at junctions

I am not sure what you are suggesting regarding my questions 

baser999

If you were in the right hand lane you would have been governed by the lights to your right, so you should have waited there on red. I suppose whether you receive any penalty notice is going to be dependent upon if you were caught on camera?

Ermia

baser999 said:

If you were in the right hand lane you would have been governed by the lights to your right, so you should have waited there on red. I suppose whether you receive any penalty notice is going to be dependent upon if you were caught on camera?

There is no big yellow camera around there.

Is it likely that non-yellow cameras also issue Fixed-Penalty Notice fines? I don't mind getting PCNs. 

Also, is it in the highway code that each lane is governed by a light next to it? Can I have an excuse (if getting an FPN) that I interpreted the rules differently and thought the left-hand light applies to all lanes? It was the first time ever I faced such a disparity for different lanes.

Grey_Critic

**Can I have an excuse (if getting an FPN) that I interpreted the rules differently and thought the left-hand light applies to all lanes?**

Perhaps you should wait and see if you get a ticket, as for an excuse you can try you interpreted the rules different  but personally I think you are making things complicated - IF you get a ticket and you want to try and wriggle out of it why not just tell the truth. You got in the wrong lane by mistake - it happens to all of us at times.

daveyjp

Similar to lights near me.  Two lanes ahead, right lane is also right turn.

When lights first change it is ahead green arrow only, for both lanes, then a few seconds later the right filter lights.  If in the right lane and going straight ahead you can go, if turning right wait for the right turn filter.

Coming the other way left for ahead snd right lane is for right turn only.  First green is a green arrow ahead and there is a sign telling traffic not to turn right whilst red is showing, this eventuallh changes to a right arrow green.

Ermia

Grey_Critic said:

**Can I have an excuse (if getting an FPN) that I interpreted the rules differently and thought the left-hand light applies to all lanes?**

Perhaps you should wait and see if you get a ticket, as for an excuse you can try you interpreted the rules different  but personally I think you are making things complicated - IF you get a ticket and you want to try and wriggle out of it why not just tell the truth. You got in the wrong lane by mistake - it happens to all of us at times.

Yes, I should wait for the ticket, but it's not just about the past. I want to know whether I was allowed to cross the line because will take that route again in the future.

There is no safe decision if the rules are unclear:

1. If I should stop and I cross the line instead, I'll get a fine (for "crossing the red light").

1. But also if I should go (= the traffic light should be interpreted as green) and I stop instead, I can also get a fine (e.g. for blocking the road or "dangerous driving" or "not paying attention to other road users")

The confusing part is that:

• I didn't take the wrong lane per se. I was allowed to go straight from the right-side lane, too.
• However, that right-side lane does not have a green arrow for going straight. It doesn't even have that bulb, perhaps because in the past that lane was for "turn right only" but then they changed the ground markings without changing the traffic light bulbs.

This is honestly the first time I see a junction with this situation where both lanes are allowed to go straight but only one of them gets the green arrow. And I don't know if this is intentional (= I should have stopped) or just a legacy of the past (=they didn't install the green arrow on the right-side light so I should follow the left-side traffic light)

user1977

If you're in a correct lane for going straight ahead, and the green light allows you to go straight ahead, I don't see any offence. The fact the filter light is only on the lefthand side is irrelevant, as far as I can make out. There's no principle that you need to follow the lights closer to your lane.

Roland_Sausage

user1977 said:

If you're in a correct lane for going straight ahead, and the green light allows you to go straight ahead, I don't see any offence. The fact the filter light is only on the lefthand side is irrelevant, as far as I can make out. There's no principle that you need to follow the lights closer to your lane.

I would agree with this. You were going straight on and the light was lit for straight on. I can't see the issue.

I do much prefer how other countries do things where they have a light above each lane. That way there is no ambiguity and it's also easier to see. I have seen it in a couple of places in the UK but it's rare. 

Car_54

user1977 said:

If you're in a correct lane for going straight ahead, and the green light allows you to go straight ahead, I don't see any offence. The fact the filter light is only on the lefthand side is irrelevant, as far as I can make out. There's no principle that you need to follow the lights closer to your lane.

Yes indeed.
1. The green arrow means you may proceed (if safe) in that direction. There is no restriction on what lane you use.
2. The directional arrows on the road are advisory only.