What's the actual cost of having the heating on?

aoleks

Spoonie_Turtle said:

TRVs on the radiators would hugely help for the rooms that don't need to be heated.

What temperature is the heating set to?

You say they're stuck in their ways, which unfortunately is a common complaint for adult children up and down the country.  The question is, which is more painful: changing, suffering unnecessarily, or a massive bill?  (The answer to that of course will be different for different people/families.)

unless you have a room that's consistently/permanently unused, TRVs are not meant to be adjusted multiple times on a daily basis. they take time to adjust and are intended for longer term use, if that makes sense. turning a TRV off for half an hour, while I heat up the rest of the house, then turning it back on for later, might not have the desired effect.

k_man

Chrysalis said:

Yep I have the 24/7 pilot light problem.  That combined with gas SC means most of my gas bill is not for actual usage.  I am sure I am not the only one in this boat.

Mine is about 0.014 m3 per hour, so about 3-4 KwH a day if my maths is right for pilot light.

Not sure why Octopus dont just put KwH usage on the usage dash for gas it be easier.

The Octopus app, and the Bright app both show kWh. Albeit the latter may not be the actual caloric value, it won't be far off.

Naomim

Thank you for the insightful replies.

I'm not sure what temperature the heating is set to, the dial in the hall is about 70-80 I think. 

They had a smart meter installed by their previous supplier but it stopped showing readings when they switched. Can Octopus remedy that or would they need new meters putting in?  They also have a heated towel rail that comes on when their hot water tank is heating. They don't turn it off so even in the heatwave this summer you would melt in their bathroom. They did turn it off once and it leaked everywhere.  The only other thing that would cost them more money is  the two fridge freezers running the garage as well as their kitchen one.  I think this a reaction to growing up poor, they like to keep stocks of everything. I'm sure they could open a cash and carry out their garage!

Drying the washing on the radiators is because MrsM senior can be slightly controlling - for want of a better word. She wants washing done, dried, ironed and put away the same day. I've just convinced her to stop washing clothes every day for two people! She was gifted an electric airer which, I believe if she cut washing down to every three days, and used the heated airer would save a small amount of money.

Unfortunately they aren't entitled to any benefits. After years of living frugally and saving, they have a small private pension and state pension.  I have spoken to them about power of attorney and will see about getting the ball rolling in that direction.

They can't understand why their costs are double ours and to be honest nor can I. The boiler is all I can come up with. We are a family of 4 in a similar size house except ours was built in the 1960's.  Our estimated annual cost is that of the "average" family at £2,500 a year.  Either MrM or I are home working every day during the week so it's not that we're not here using utilities. If anything our front room gets very cold as it's open plan. - I will never have open plan again.  We had our 16year old combi boiler replaced  last September for another combi.  That's another bone of contention with MrsM senior. The horror of possibly losing an airing cupboard. I just don't think they need a water tank though. They don't take baths and have an electric shower in the bathroom so I feel they are heating a water tank to do a minimal bit of washing up as they also have a dishwasher.  Again I have convinced them to only heat the water once a day instead of twice. 

I think they need to go down the smart meter route again, that might show them in true terms what they are using and when, then try and discuss new boiler and rads with TRV's.

Thanks again everyone.

Naomim

Alnat1

My dad was exactly the same with his hot water tank with electric shower/dishwasher but I've finally managed to get him to turn the darn thing off. Took some persuading but he finally saw sense in boiling a kettle when he wants a shave instead of heating the tank 2 hours in the morning and same again every evening.

I've also explained that only having the CH on for an hour in the morning and 2 in the evening is a false economy if he keeps turning on the fan heater in the living room. His electric was 6000kWh and gas 10,000kWh last year. 

Hopefully his gas usage won't go up much and his electricity will be half of last years kWh.

deano2099

Naomim said:

They can't understand why their costs are double ours and to be honest nor can I. 

Pretty sure you've answered your own question here! 

Naomim said:

the two fridge freezers running the garage as well as their kitchen one.

I've just convinced her to stop washing clothes every day for two people!

The boiler is all I can come up with. 
electric shower in the bathroom
they also have a dishwasher.
Again I have convinced them to only heat the water once a day instead of twice. 

Fridge-freezers have to work harder in the garage, and they're devices that have got a lot more efficient over time. Are they older units that moved into the garage as newer ones were acquired? That'll be one major culprit.
Washing clothes every day will again be an issue, even every three days is a lot for two people. You've already identified the issues with drying. Modern heat-pump dryers are pretty efficient and may be a more palatable alternative. Assuming they're it's not being used every day.
Electric showers are very expensive. A 9.5kw electric shower for ten minutes would cost 54p. 
Dishwashers can vary, but if it's being run daily again like the washing machine, for two people, that's probably 3 times as often as needed.
How long is the water heated for? If it's just being used for the taps it shouldn't need a full hour or longer.

k_man

deano2099 said:

Naomim said:

They can't understand why their costs are double ours and to be honest nor can I. 

Pretty sure you've answered your own question here! 

Naomim said:

the two fridge freezers running the garage as well as their kitchen one.

I've just convinced her to stop washing clothes every day for two people!

The boiler is all I can come up with. 
electric shower in the bathroom
they also have a dishwasher.
Again I have convinced them to only heat the water once a day instead of twice. 

Fridge-freezers have to work harder in the garage, and they're devices that have got a lot more efficient over time. Are they older units that moved into the garage as newer ones were acquired? That'll be one major culprit.
Washing clothes every day will again be an issue, even every three days is a lot for two people. You've already identified the issues with drying. Modern heat-pump dryers are pretty efficient and may be a more palatable alternative. Assuming they're it's not being used every day.
Electric showers are very expensive. A 9.5kw electric shower for ten minutes would cost 54p. 
Dishwashers can vary, but if it's being run daily again like the washing machine, for two people, that's probably 3 times as often as needed.
How long is the water heated for? If it's just being used for the taps it shouldn't need a full hour or longer.

Can you explain why this is the case?
Wouldn't they need to work harder in a warm kitchen?
(I know some aren't designed to work in low ambient temperatures, but many are)

[Deleted User]

Naomim said:

We had our 16year old combi boiler replaced  last September for another combi.  That's another bone of contention with MrsM senior. The horror of possibly losing an airing cupboard. I just don't think they need a water tank though. They don't take baths and have an electric shower in the bathroom so I feel they are heating a water tank to do a minimal bit of washing up as they also have a dishwasher.  Again I have convinced them to only heat the water once a day instead of twice. 

Having a water tank or not is an interesting decision - for more 'futuristic' heating systems like a heat pump, a water tank is necessary so getting the existing tank and associated plumbing removed might just require it to then be put back again.

A well insulated hot water cylinder doesn't need to use too much energy to heat up again - I can't see me personally changing away from a system boiler at this time.

deano2099

k_man said:

deano2099 said:

Naomim said:

They can't understand why their costs are double ours and to be honest nor can I. 

Pretty sure you've answered your own question here! 

Naomim said:

the two fridge freezers running the garage as well as their kitchen one.

I've just convinced her to stop washing clothes every day for two people!

The boiler is all I can come up with. 
electric shower in the bathroom
they also have a dishwasher.
Again I have convinced them to only heat the water once a day instead of twice. 

Fridge-freezers have to work harder in the garage, and they're devices that have got a lot more efficient over time. Are they older units that moved into the garage as newer ones were acquired? That'll be one major culprit.
Washing clothes every day will again be an issue, even every three days is a lot for two people. You've already identified the issues with drying. Modern heat-pump dryers are pretty efficient and may be a more palatable alternative. Assuming they're it's not being used every day.
Electric showers are very expensive. A 9.5kw electric shower for ten minutes would cost 54p. 
Dishwashers can vary, but if it's being run daily again like the washing machine, for two people, that's probably 3 times as often as needed.
How long is the water heated for? If it's just being used for the taps it shouldn't need a full hour or longer.

Can you explain why this is the case?
Wouldn't they need to work harder in a warm kitchen?
(I know some aren't designed to work in low ambient temperatures, but many are)

If they're designed for it then that's different. Like I said, I'm assuming they were passed down from the kitchen so likely to be older models. If they went out and bought two fridge-freezers rated for use in garages purely for this purpose then that'd be quite different.
Maybe "works harder" wasn't the right words (although I think self-defrosting freezers have the run the heating element more often in very cold environments) - they're just not designed for it and it can cause issues, am sure someone else can explain the science!

theoretica

Heating the back room to 'very hot' rather than just comfortable is likely to be a significant part of the cost.  Basic upgrades to the existing system are likely pay for themselves - and enhance comfort by keeping the room warm enough for more of the time rather than hot sometimes and cold others.  I am thinking of the radiator valves and a portable room thermostat that have already been mentioned.

Naomim

I've just had a look back at their past bills and tried to run a comparison to ours for the same quarter.  This was Q1/2022.

They used 5359.7 Kwh. My bills were only for Feb - March in that period and we used 245 units so assume our total for Jan - March would be about 500-700 units possibly.  It's still a huge difference.