Company relocating office

On-the-coast

Haven’t read all the replies above but I think you’ve received generally good advice. 

I went through a very similar consultation about 10 years ago.  

I was one of the ‘unlucky’ ones whose commute would have increased from 45mins to 75mins

after much grumbling (mediated by a big company HR dept.), the most I and a few others in similar circumstances were offered was 6 months of a few pounds/day of fuel expenses to ease us into the new reality. 

SensibleSarah

I had something similar happen in my last job. The office moved from a small business park 1.5 miles away from my house (and a major reason why I took the job in the first place) with obviously a short commute and free parking if I drove, to a new office in the city centre where there was only very expensive parking (and public transport not an option from where I live) and an hour's commute each way (mainly sat in traffic rather than due to distance). There were definitely no kinds of compensation or concessions from my employer - they assumed everyone would love working in a busy city centre rather than a quiet business park and because the directors got their parking costs included in the office building rent (but no one else), they didn't even consider this for the rest of staff. You're fortunate to get any kind of consultation tbh! We just got told we were moving and were expected to be excited about it. 

I just put up with it for a few years (I'd had longer commutes in the past too) but the pandemic and suddenly working from home for over a year changed my thinking on many things and some of my priorities. 

When pandemic restrictions eased and they started to ask us to go back into the office a few times a week - I absolutely couldn't contemplate going back to 2 hours of my own time sat in traffic and having to pay through the nose for parking . So I handed in my notice and now work from home full time permanently (self-employed). Obviously not something everyone can (or would want to) do, but it's been brilliant for me. 

thebrexitunicorn

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

MEM62 said:

caprikid1 said:

I think you can effectively force redundancy if you could prove the new location cannot work without any additional flexibility. 

That will not be the case.  The move will not be considered far enough. 

It’s not that clear cut.  If an individual simply doesn’t have the additional time and there isn’t flexibility from the employer (eg home working, flexibility on hours) then it could be a redundancy situation.  What is reasonable for one person may not be for another, due to personal circumstances (often caring responsibilities).   Whether it’s possible or reasonable for the OP I don’t know. 

Where does this come from?  By that logic any change, however tiny, could be regarded as a redundancy situation and I am pretty sure that is not the case.

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

MEM62 said:

caprikid1 said:

I think you can effectively force redundancy if you could prove the new location cannot work without any additional flexibility. 

That will not be the case.  The move will not be considered far enough. 

It’s not that clear cut.  If an individual simply doesn’t have the additional time and there isn’t flexibility from the employer (eg home working, flexibility on hours) then it could be a redundancy situation.  What is reasonable for one person may not be for another, due to personal circumstances (often caring responsibilities).   Whether it’s possible or reasonable for the OP I don’t know. 

Where does this come from?  By that logic any change, however tiny, could be regarded as a redundancy situation and I am pretty sure that is not the case.

It comes from case law.

Ath_Wat

thebrexitunicorn said:

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

MEM62 said:

caprikid1 said:

I think you can effectively force redundancy if you could prove the new location cannot work without any additional flexibility. 

That will not be the case.  The move will not be considered far enough. 

It’s not that clear cut.  If an individual simply doesn’t have the additional time and there isn’t flexibility from the employer (eg home working, flexibility on hours) then it could be a redundancy situation.  What is reasonable for one person may not be for another, due to personal circumstances (often caring responsibilities).   Whether it’s possible or reasonable for the OP I don’t know. 

Where does this come from?  By that logic any change, however tiny, could be regarded as a redundancy situation and I am pretty sure that is not the case.

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

MEM62 said:

caprikid1 said:

I think you can effectively force redundancy if you could prove the new location cannot work without any additional flexibility. 

That will not be the case.  The move will not be considered far enough. 

It’s not that clear cut.  If an individual simply doesn’t have the additional time and there isn’t flexibility from the employer (eg home working, flexibility on hours) then it could be a redundancy situation.  What is reasonable for one person may not be for another, due to personal circumstances (often caring responsibilities).   Whether it’s possible or reasonable for the OP I don’t know. 

Where does this come from?  By that logic any change, however tiny, could be regarded as a redundancy situation and I am pretty sure that is not the case.

It comes from case law.

Which case law?  If there is a case where someone showed for example that a ten minute extra commute didn't work for them due to childcare arrangements and a court upheld that in such circumstances their leaving would constitute redundancy, that would be immensely helpful to the OP and anyone in their position going forward.  I don't know of such a case because I believe the decision is made without specific regard to the individual circumstances of the employee and on a basis of general reasonableness, but if you can point to the case that would be great.

If you don't know the individual cases or cases, of course, pointing at the information you did receive that leads you to believe this to be true would be just as helpful.

74jax

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

MEM62 said:

caprikid1 said:

I think you can effectively force redundancy if you could prove the new location cannot work without any additional flexibility. 

That will not be the case.  The move will not be considered far enough. 

It’s not that clear cut.  If an individual simply doesn’t have the additional time and there isn’t flexibility from the employer (eg home working, flexibility on hours) then it could be a redundancy situation.  What is reasonable for one person may not be for another, due to personal circumstances (often caring responsibilities).   Whether it’s possible or reasonable for the OP I don’t know. 

Where does this come from?  By that logic any change, however tiny, could be regarded as a redundancy situation and I am pretty sure that is not the case.

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

MEM62 said:

caprikid1 said:

I think you can effectively force redundancy if you could prove the new location cannot work without any additional flexibility. 

That will not be the case.  The move will not be considered far enough. 

It’s not that clear cut.  If an individual simply doesn’t have the additional time and there isn’t flexibility from the employer (eg home working, flexibility on hours) then it could be a redundancy situation.  What is reasonable for one person may not be for another, due to personal circumstances (often caring responsibilities).   Whether it’s possible or reasonable for the OP I don’t know. 

Where does this come from?  By that logic any change, however tiny, could be regarded as a redundancy situation and I am pretty sure that is not the case.

It comes from case law.

Which case law?  If there is a case where someone showed for example that a ten minute extra commute didn't work for them due to childcare arrangements and a court upheld that in such circumstances their leaving would constitute redundancy, that would be immensely helpful to the OP and anyone in their position going forward.  I don't know of such a case because I believe the decision is made without specific regard to the individual circumstances of the employee and on a basis of general reasonableness, but if you can point to the case that would be great.

If you don't know the individual cases or cases, of course, pointing at the information you did receive that leads you to believe this to be true would be just as helpful.

I had a Google this morning if the law papers (purely for nosey-ness) and couldn't see anything so I'm interested too. 

The_Unready

SensibleSarah said:

I had something similar happen in my last job. The office moved from a small business park 1.5 miles away from my house (and a major reason why I took the job in the first place) with obviously a short commute and free parking if I drove, to a new office in the city centre where there was only very expensive parking (and public transport not an option from where I live) and an hour's commute each way (mainly sat in traffic rather than due to distance). 

Hopefully you took the opportunity of cycling to both places of work whenever possible (or even walking to the original site) to take advantage of all the benefits that brings.....

SensibleSarah

The_Unready said:

Hopefully you took the opportunity of cycling to both places of work whenever possible (or even walking to the original site) to take advantage of all the benefits that brings.....

Absolutely not cycling - far too hilly on both routes unless you're some kind of dedicated super-fit athlete, which I am certainly not and have no desire to be. I did walk to the closer office many times in the 6 months or so that we were there before the move, but was also often required to have my car with me for travel to onwards work meetings or to run work errands - and yes, I did have business use cover on my car insurance. 

The_Unready

SensibleSarah said

Absolutely not cycling - far too hilly on both routes unless you're some kind of dedicated super-fit athlete, which I am certainly not and have no desire to be. I did walk to the closer office many times in the 6 months or so that we were there before the move

Good effort on the walking. These days e-bikes can flatten most hills (unless you live in Nepal 😁)....

thebrexitunicorn

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

MEM62 said:

caprikid1 said:

I think you can effectively force redundancy if you could prove the new location cannot work without any additional flexibility. 

That will not be the case.  The move will not be considered far enough. 

It’s not that clear cut.  If an individual simply doesn’t have the additional time and there isn’t flexibility from the employer (eg home working, flexibility on hours) then it could be a redundancy situation.  What is reasonable for one person may not be for another, due to personal circumstances (often caring responsibilities).   Whether it’s possible or reasonable for the OP I don’t know. 

Where does this come from?  By that logic any change, however tiny, could be regarded as a redundancy situation and I am pretty sure that is not the case.

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

MEM62 said:

caprikid1 said:

I think you can effectively force redundancy if you could prove the new location cannot work without any additional flexibility. 

That will not be the case.  The move will not be considered far enough. 

It’s not that clear cut.  If an individual simply doesn’t have the additional time and there isn’t flexibility from the employer (eg home working, flexibility on hours) then it could be a redundancy situation.  What is reasonable for one person may not be for another, due to personal circumstances (often caring responsibilities).   Whether it’s possible or reasonable for the OP I don’t know. 

Where does this come from?  By that logic any change, however tiny, could be regarded as a redundancy situation and I am pretty sure that is not the case.

It comes from case law.

Which case law?  If there is a case where someone showed for example that a ten minute extra commute didn't work for them due to childcare arrangements and a court upheld that in such circumstances their leaving would constitute redundancy, that would be immensely helpful to the OP and anyone in their position going forward.  I don't know of such a case because I believe the decision is made without specific regard to the individual circumstances of the employee and on a basis of general reasonableness, but if you can point to the case that would be great.

If you don't know the individual cases or cases, of course, pointing at the information you did receive that leads you to believe this to be true would be just as helpful.

I have no idea if anyone’s ever challenged anything on the basis of increasing a commute by 10 mins.  I repeat that in the OP’s case I don’t know if it’s reasonable.  

On your other question about the relevance of personal circumstances,  if you’re interested in the subject I would suggest you have a look at some tribunal judgements that deal with the topic of suitable alternatives - I’m not wading through judgements to find names.  Of course, the tribunal is a first tier court.    Alternatively, you could  have a look at the IDS Employment Law Handbook series , there’s one on redundancy (which cites many cases ).  The information you are seeking is there if you read the section that covers suitable alternatives.  

 I’m wondering  how you think it can be decided whether someone has ‘unreasonably refused’ an offer of alternative employment without taking into account their reasons for doing so.
 

Ath_Wat

thebrexitunicorn said:

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

MEM62 said:

caprikid1 said:

I think you can effectively force redundancy if you could prove the new location cannot work without any additional flexibility. 

That will not be the case.  The move will not be considered far enough. 

It’s not that clear cut.  If an individual simply doesn’t have the additional time and there isn’t flexibility from the employer (eg home working, flexibility on hours) then it could be a redundancy situation.  What is reasonable for one person may not be for another, due to personal circumstances (often caring responsibilities).   Whether it’s possible or reasonable for the OP I don’t know. 

Where does this come from?  By that logic any change, however tiny, could be regarded as a redundancy situation and I am pretty sure that is not the case.

Ath_Wat said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

MEM62 said:

caprikid1 said:

I think you can effectively force redundancy if you could prove the new location cannot work without any additional flexibility. 

That will not be the case.  The move will not be considered far enough. 

It’s not that clear cut.  If an individual simply doesn’t have the additional time and there isn’t flexibility from the employer (eg home working, flexibility on hours) then it could be a redundancy situation.  What is reasonable for one person may not be for another, due to personal circumstances (often caring responsibilities).   Whether it’s possible or reasonable for the OP I don’t know. 

Where does this come from?  By that logic any change, however tiny, could be regarded as a redundancy situation and I am pretty sure that is not the case.

It comes from case law.

Which case law?  If there is a case where someone showed for example that a ten minute extra commute didn't work for them due to childcare arrangements and a court upheld that in such circumstances their leaving would constitute redundancy, that would be immensely helpful to the OP and anyone in their position going forward.  I don't know of such a case because I believe the decision is made without specific regard to the individual circumstances of the employee and on a basis of general reasonableness, but if you can point to the case that would be great.

If you don't know the individual cases or cases, of course, pointing at the information you did receive that leads you to believe this to be true would be just as helpful.

I have no idea if anyone’s ever challenged anything on the basis of increasing a commute by 10 mins.  I repeat that in the OP’s case I don’t know if it’s reasonable.  

On your other question about the relevance of personal circumstances,  if you’re interested in the subject I would suggest you have a look at some tribunal judgements that deal with the topic of suitable alternatives - I’m not wading through judgements to find names.  Of course, the tribunal is a first tier court.    Alternatively, you could  have a look at the IDS Employment Law Handbook series , there’s one on redundancy (which cites many cases ).  The information you are seeking is there if you read the section that covers suitable alternatives.  

 I’m wondering  how you think it can be decided whether someone has ‘unreasonably refused’ an offer of alternative employment without taking into account their reasons for doing so.
 

So you said

"It’s not that clear cut.  If an individual simply doesn’t have the additional time and there isn’t flexibility from the employer (eg home working, flexibility on hours) then it could be a redundancy situation.  What is reasonable for one person may not be for another, due to personal circumstances (often caring responsibilities).   Whether it’s possible or reasonable for the OP I don’t know. "

And I asked where that came from and you answered 

"It's case law"

And when I asked which case your answer is 

"I have no idea"

Is that correct?

I don't have an "other" question.  There's one question.  What case law shows that individual circumstances are taken into account?  Just quote one case that shows that what could be regarded as a small move by most was held unreasonable for someone because it clashed with their existing arrangements.