Post-sale House Problems - Source of Liability

QQuadrophenic

Hello there.

 

I am lost, confused and close to conceding defeat with my dilemma and getting on with life. A close friend suggested this forum could provide the direction I’m desperately after so here goes. [Hopefully this post reads well enough but regardless I owe a beer, virtual or otherwise to anyone that can make it to the end!] Once upon a time…

So, my wife and I purchased a house back in April 2022 after a protracted chain sale that began in Nov 2021. On day 1 we found repair work of a poor standard to the conservatory roof (gaffer tape completely covering a 3m ceiling joist and also some poorly applied adhesive substance across the top of the 3m length of the south window frame).

It rained that same night (we are in Scotland afterall) and we had various leaks and water ingress across the roofing panels and the window frames. Nothing excessively flooding the place but some sizeable 1-5 inch puddles in a few locations. This was reported straight away via the solicitors; the sellers came back, acknowledged it had been repaired but said they would send out a tradesman to have a look. Pertinent to note, the home report graded the conservatory a ‘1’.

After some weeks and a few no-shows said tradesman finally attends the property and said it cannot be repaired only replaced. I sought a reputable local conservatory company to validate the assessment which they did. They confirmed you would struggle to get anyone to commit to a repair saying the issue was structural and the roof needed replaced (it was beyond repair). 

To note, there is some degree of water ingress every time it rains. The locations and severity of ingress varies randomly but we have had approx. a double-digit quantity of ingress points since moving in. We cannot use the room at all due to the issue. 

The sellers point blank refuse to entertain any replacement activity on the conservatory. The quotes we have received for replacing just the window and roofing panels – that was around £11,000. I have only had 1 official quote for panel replacement as the others quote for a full conservatory replacement starting at £18,000. At this point, our solicitor for the move (who made the whole transaction a rather distressing experience) washed their hands of us after a few attempts at engaging with the sellers saying we will need to contact a “post-settlement solicitor” to take it further. Something (at the time) I wasn’t against as I called into question their professionalism and interest in even dealing with us. That is a whole different story here I won’t dwell on further.

 

We are into August now and a family member who dabbles in property renovation suggested commissioning a structural report as the surveyor could be liable for gross negligence – I understand now that’s hard to prove and there is caveat and disclaimers galore when it comes to home reports. Regardless, the engineering report concluded the conservatory at one side has “pulled away from the house by 10mm” and there is “evidence that an attempt has been made to fill in the gap in the brickwork joint with foam” – this was identified as the cause of the water ingress. 

 

Since receiving the final engineering report I have reached out to a few solicitors and the citizens advice bureau. The latter are not responsive. The former vary from no reply, to too busy, to charging exorbitant rates just to even look at the case before offering any advice, guidance or summary. I’m not oblivious to the fact their time is money but I can’t even get a steer or indication if I have a case or might have a case, who is liable, how to pursue etc. 

So instead, I guess this is where MSE comes in. I am hoping anyone can offer any guidance across a few key questions OR maybe someone has experienced something similar. 

 

I think the exam questions are:

 1)    Firstly, do we even have a case? I genuinely thought this was a cast iron solid case. I appreciate a forum post doesn’t cover every inch of detail of what has happened, please throw questions at me if more info is needed but in my mind it seems clear cut enough. A very significant defect that was a) missed from the home report and/or b) not communicated to us via the seller. The fact I can’t get a meaningful response from a solicitor is starting to make me think otherwise sadly. If I do have a case then…

2)    Who is the liable party? Both? Neither? If both, is one avenue more promising than the other. Can both be pursued? Small claims court? Etc. The seller has clearly acknowledged a fault post-sale by telling us they had it repaired. When that was I don’t know. To what extent can they use the home report as their get-out-of-jail-free card? The surveyor as mentioned, at fault for such a significant oversight – at the time of viewing whether gaffer tape or not in place, the side of the conservatory has pulled away from the property. Gross negligence springs to mind but in law that may be wide of the mark. 

 

Any advice at all, positive or negative would be genuinely greatly appreciated. Time is dragging on and I may even have missed any window of opportunity - I guess that is a third question? Do I have time to go back to the seller directly? Its been quite difficult to bring myself to resolving this as it has been quite disheartening on many fronts (the integrity of the seller, the disregard of my initial solicitor). That may be a bit dramatic but we did everything we could with our sale to support the buyer (and so we should). We put in a huge huge offer for our new property. To move in on day 1 knowing that the sellers were fully aware of such an issue leaves a horrible taste. Don’t get me wrong we are very lucky, first world problems and all that but I guess it’s the principle, this just doesn’t sit right. 

There is a lot I would have done differently looking back. Buyer beware should have been king – to a degree I am of course liable, I guess it’s knowing what to look for but we are where we are. This is the last shot to see if there is anything I can do to recover some money to begin rectifying the conservatory. There has been no cost outlay yet (other than a self-commissioned engineering report) as I have next to no surplus to begin funding any remediation – by that I mean, in the eyes of a court I am not out of pocket because of this matter but only because there is not much in the pocket to use. 

I don’t know where to go to be honest. I don’t know which party is liable. I do not know what each party is specifically falling afoul of e.g. broke a missive clause, broke the Consumer Act, or otherwise? As mentioned, I have contacted solicitors to no avail – we simply can’t afford to pay thousands and thousands of pounds to a solicitor for them to tell me we don’t have a case. So if anyone out there can advise us instead, my wife and my sanity would be deeply appreciative.

 

If you got to the end, thank you!

 

p.s. If anyone knows of any bored solicitors please reach out.

Alderbank

Conservatories are considered temporary structures.
The RICS HomeBuyer Report practice note 2010 Scotland only requires the surveyor to do the following:

E7 Conservatory and porches
They are visually inspected.
• Listed building consent/conservation area.

• Type and condition

• Building regulation and/or planning approval

• Inappropriate use

Unlike England, in Scotland the Homebuyer report is commissioned and paid for by the seller. As the buyer you have no contract with the surveyor so trying to claim against him for 'gross negligence' or anything else is not going to work.

Roughly how old is the conservatory?
If it's more than ten years old it will have little or no residual value and most conservatory companies, as you have found, will simply tell you it is time to buy a new one.

jonnydeppiwish!

Unfortunately caveat emptor comes to mind with regards to the seller unless they deliberately mislead you in the sale. You’d need to have a burden of proof for that as well.  Even if they have admitted it has been repaired, you will have had to check that it is still usable prior to exchange.

Conservatories are always an issue so as previous poster ref surveyors and conservatories.

just knock it down and replace it with either a proper extension or a new conservatory 

anselld

I would agree with above your have no chance of recovering this from anyone else and moving on will involve finding and funding a solution yourself.
Some of the descriptions don't quite add up.  You say the engineers report blames faulty brickwork but this is presumably where wall meets wall whereas you say the leaks are coming from the roof.  

Assuming the panels are not punctured there are limited points where water may be getting in - either the flashing or the glazing bars.  Perhaps it would be better to ask a general roofer to have a look, preferably on recommendation, before you write off the Conservatory completely.  It seems like everyone you have asked so far has a vested interest in the answer being replacement of some sort.

user1977

Alderbank said:

Unlike England, in Scotland the Homebuyer report is commissioned and paid for by the seller. As the buyer you have no contract with the surveyor so trying to claim against him for 'gross negligence' or anything else is not going to work.

No, the whole point of the Home Report system is that the surveyor undertakes a duty of care to the buyer and their lender. They are just as entitled to claim as a normal client would.

The difficulty is going to be the usual one of what caveats there were in the report, which is difficult for us to advise on without seeing it. Would the defect in question have been apparent during the surveyor's inspection? Could the relevant bit of roof be seen from ground level, for example? Had it been raining? Surveyors can't just ignore indoor puddles...

I can't see why would there be a claim against the seller, unless there had been some sort of statement made which we haven't been told about?

RM_2013

I don’t have much experience of the way properties are sold in Scotland other than what I’ve read on this forum.  My understanding is that the seller arranged a homebuyers report prior to sale.  I’m assuming that this is just a visual homebuyers survey rather than a full structural survey? 

The question is whether the damage would have been obvious during the survey as level 2 surveys are based on ground level inspections.  How did the conservatory look when you viewed the house? It may have not been obvious if not raining when you viewed?

if your solicitors can’t help there may be a limited amount you can do.  I’d be tempted to get rid of the conservatory and start again.  It’s only going to get worse during the winter.

 

jj_43

In short you are liable. It’s now your property and the problems are yours to fix. Take it as a learning experience and move on .

youth_leader

I am so sorry, it is buyer beware, you have to accept that it 'is what it is' and move on.   I hope you can find a good local person to fix it soon before the winter.

I didn't ask about the floors when I viewed (had secretly hoped for parquet, 1930's bungalow), and my RCIS surveyor was unable to lift the carpets/move furniture.  The vendor says she left me the 2016  floor surveys, she didn't.  25 year timber guarantee worthless, company had gone out of business, no insurance link.

I moved here in March 2021 and in November 2021 discovered all the floors here were rotten.  I have had to spend every penny of my equity on having the floors replaced,  after a lot of anger that went nowhere except more wrinkles on my face, I have now accepted it is an 'investment'.  I had to take up and chuck out all the fitted carpets I'd hoped to replace in a few years, have the fitted wardrobes, fitted units and shower completely removed.  My clothes and possessions are still in their storage boxes as the men marked the walls, I've got to redecorate throughout as well.  

GDB2222

jj_43 said:

In short you are liable. It’s now your property and the problems are yours to fix. Take it as a learning experience and move on .

Can I ask what you base that statement on? Are you saying that the surveyor wasn’t liable, and, if so, why not? 

ProDave

The most confusing thing is the thread title.  It should be post PURCHASE house problems........