M&S default - help

johnweir123

As we're all in full hindsight mode here let's suppose for a second we were back at the beginning.  

If I felt it was unfair that within the circumstances that they had applied the fees how should I have handled it if I didn't want to pay the fees?  

People have mentioned the idea that they could have been paid and then subsequently reclaimed. 

Having seen the way they operate.  i.e. impervious to reason... I would put my chances of reclaiming the unfairly applied fees at about 0%.  

So if you know you won't get the money back and you're looking at a situation where you have no choice but to reward them for their incompetence what is the correct way to handle that situation.  

Would you take them to court?  I think the alternative is simply to let them get away with it to one extent or another... that's what most people here seem to be suggesting. 

impoverishedtraveller

You still don’t quite comprehend that:

1. The additional charges applied to your account are due to YOU not paying your statement on time.
2. The default on your account is due to YOU not paying your statement on time.

If you didn’t want to be charged the fees, or get a default… YOU should have paid your statement on time using just ONE of the alternate methods previously suggested.

Because of YOUR lack of action regarding making a payment, both charges and default are justified. 

So yes… the only thing that you are 100% right about is that attempting to reclaim charges would be 0% successful - because M&S were 100% justified in adding them.
BECAUSE YOU DIDN’T PAY ON TIME.

User_101122

 If I felt it was unfair that within the circumstances that they had applied the fees how should I have handled it if I didn't want to pay the fees?  

Maybe sought some rational and rounded advice before you sat on somebody else’s money for months.
That said, judging by your responses to this forum you’d have disregarded that and done what you thought was right regardless of the advice given.  So that probably wouldn’t have saved you from this mess either.

As we're all in full hindsight mode here let's suppose for a second we were back at the beginning.  

It’s not hindsight. It’s crystal clear and inevitable foresight.  If you miss payments you incur charges and negative hits on your credit file.

Having seen the way they operate.  i.e. impervious to reason... I would put my chances of reclaiming the unfairly applied fees at about 0%

Your chances are slim because they had every right to charge you the fees because you refused to pay them.

So if you know you won't get the money back and you're looking at a situation where you have no choice but to reward them for their incompetence what is the correct way to handle that situation

Their incompetence (IT failure) didn’t prevent you from paying by other methods.  You chose not to in an attempt to punish them or because you thought you were clever.  Now that it’s backfired in your face you’ve thrown your toys out of the pram and are blaming everyone but yourself.  So In answer to your question; finding an alternative method of payment or engaging with them if you couldn’t would have been the correct way to handle this.

I think the alternative is simply to let them get away with it to one extent or another... that's what most people here seem to be suggesting.

On the contrary, the alternative would be for them to refund your fees and thus set the precedent that anyone can just withhold payment whenever it suits them.  It seems they didn’t fancy this option and quite rightly charged you and defaulted you.

lr1277

Have you never read any of your credit card statements?
On my credit card statements, at least one pages is devoted to the charging structure and multiple methods of payment.

If I never received a statement, I would be ringing up to get the problem fixed and/or get a paper copy of latest statement.

User_101122

Genuinely hope the OP isn’t financially linked to anyone else so that he can drag them down with his stupidity also.

Wouldn’t like to be a fly on the wall if he has to explain to a partner or wife why they’re getting declined finance.

born_again

johnweir123 said:

As we're all in full hindsight mode here let's suppose for a second we were back at the beginning.  

If I felt it was unfair that within the circumstances that they had applied the fees how should I have handled it if I didn't want to pay the fees?  

People have mentioned the idea that they could have been paid and then subsequently reclaimed. 

Having seen the way they operate.  i.e. impervious to reason... I would put my chances of reclaiming the unfairly applied fees at about 0%.  

So if you know you won't get the money back and you're looking at a situation where you have no choice but to reward them for their incompetence what is the correct way to handle that situation.  

Would you take them to court?  I think the alternative is simply to let them get away with it to one extent or another... that's what most people here seem to be suggesting. 

Had you paid, you could have complained they were unfair charges. If they reject that, you can go to FOS to make a decision. If they agree with you. You get your money back & a bit more odds on. If they don't at least you know it's been fairly dealt with by a 3rd party & can pay.

Not paying now leaves you with a default & a pending chase from debt collectors for non payment. M&S will not just write it off. Which could, worst case end up with a CCJ. So it only gets worse.

The idea of you taking them to court is at best a bad idea, for obvious reasons.

I'm not knocking you down for your actions. Just saying how it will be treated by M&S (no I do not work for them)

cymruchris

I'd just like to echo everyone's helpful comments around the best course of action that should have been taken at the time, and that there are multiple ways to pay off a card balance that have been in existence for donkeys years. Back in the day when we had paper statements - the various ways to pay took up most of the back of the statement. These days though, as has been pointed out, the information is very easily accessible through each card providers website. 

Sadly due to the way you blinkered your way into managing it from your point of view, opinion, feelings, desires rather than following a rational process, you are where you are. 

Yes, you can most certainly try writing a very apologetic email/letter to outline your difficulties, and acknowledging your shortcomings to see if their customer services department might show some leniency - although from what you've said so far, it's unlikely (but doesn't stop you trying!)

Yes it's a blot on the landscape of your credit history, but its significance will lessen as time passes. It's a bit of a life lesson as to how things can bite us if they aren't dealt with properly. As much as you believe you were doing all the right things, and making all the right noises, you weren't. So now, if they don't want to be lenient following further communication, you'll just have to ensure that going forwards any further difficulties with any credit product are nipped in the bud at the earliest opportunity. 

It will make obtaining credit a little more challenging, and while the default is there, you might not get the best APR's - but that's what happens when a credit facility has been mis-managed. (And in short - that's what's happened - you've mis-managed the account - you can blame them as much as you like - and there may have been an issue on their side - but you've exacerbated it by taking the steps you have to end up in the position you're in). 

I hope if you do decide to write a letter to acknowledge how you could have handled it differently to resolve the original issue, they do take steps to help, but I'm not holding out much hope. I know what I've said (and others) isn't what you want to hear - but it is what it is. Good luck in trying to get a positive outcome.

[Deleted User]

born_again said:

johnweir123 said:

As we're all in full hindsight mode here let's suppose for a second we were back at the beginning.  

If I felt it was unfair that within the circumstances that they had applied the fees how should I have handled it if I didn't want to pay the fees?  

People have mentioned the idea that they could have been paid and then subsequently reclaimed. 

Having seen the way they operate.  i.e. impervious to reason... I would put my chances of reclaiming the unfairly applied fees at about 0%.  

So if you know you won't get the money back and you're looking at a situation where you have no choice but to reward them for their incompetence what is the correct way to handle that situation.  

Would you take them to court?  I think the alternative is simply to let them get away with it to one extent or another... that's what most people here seem to be suggesting. 

Had you paid, you could have complained they were unfair charges. If they reject that, you can go to FOS to make a decision. If they agree with you. You get your money back & a bit more odds on. If they don't at least you know it's been fairly dealt with by a 3rd party & can pay.

Not paying now leaves you with a default & a pending chase from debt collectors for non payment. M&S will not just write it off. Which could, worst case end up with a CCJ. So it only gets worse.

The idea of you taking them to court is at best a bad idea, for obvious reasons.

I'm not knocking you down for your actions. Just saying how it will be treated by M&S (no I do not work for them)

The very second you mention unfair charges the bank will shut it down with reference to the Supreme Court case of 2009 (while it was for bank charges, it set the precedent that correctly applied charges are not unfair)

He wasn't unfairly charged, he missed multiple payments and was given multiple missed payment charges (£150 is a lot more than 1 missed payment). The FOS/FCA have not had any inclination to deal with unfair charge complaints as they know they cannot force lenders to repay them, at most they will ask the lender to consider it and if/when the lender says no, that's it.

born_again

It was the Op that said they were unfair. I posted previously, that like you @ £12 (agreed fair charge) for missed payment, that it was more than a couple of months. Even including any interest.
So from the CC side, they were fair, as OP missed payments. 

OP just wanted some advice, rather than being constantly being shot down for their actions. I gave them some on a way forward, but tempered it with the most logical outcome.

[Deleted User]

born_again said:

It was the Op that said they were unfair. I posted previously, that like you @ £12 (agreed fair charge) for missed payment, that it was more than a couple of months. Even including any interest.
So from the CC side, they were fair, as OP missed payments. 

OP just wanted some advice, rather than being constantly being shot down for their actions. I gave them some on a way forward, but tempered it with the most logical outcome.

Sure but you said he could have paid and complained about unfair charges, he could but he won't get anywhere. It's advice certainly, but doomed to failure as the FOS do not consider unfair charge complaints any more, they will check they were applied correctly and may ask the lender to consider it but they know they have no way to do anything more because of the court ruling.