Smart Meters - good idea or not?

Chrysalis

facade said:

I spent 10 years working in industrial sensor design, and I don't trust smartmeters to give accurate readings.

The electric meters don't react well to the poorly designed switchmode power supplies we use in cheap equipment and lamp dimmers, and I have zero faith in a battery operated ultrasonic flow meter, if it were mains powered and continuously measuring I'd be a bit happier, there have been several cases on here of them over reading, and they must represent only a small number of the ones that are wrong and not being questioned.

What about my old dumb meter over reading, or is my new smart meter under reading?

eastcorkram

deano2099 said:

casjen said:

Smart meters are totally pointless. In this digital age sending the readings over your phone/pc every month ensures both, you know the company has got them and B they are accurate. The don't save you any money whatsoever.  Just digital junk.

A 5 minute job, once a month means an hour every year of your life.
Over 24 years that's a day of your life. 

Now normally with this you'd have to weight up against the downsides - but other than specific suppliers having issues on some specific tariffs, there aren't really any.

Regardless of the other benefits, it's just cutting one menial task out of my life that has no benefit to me. The time saving isn't amazing but it's also far from nothing.

But, do you not then see the bill or statement, and then read the meter anyway to see if they're right? Or do you just trust them to Bill you correctly?

[Deleted User]

There are a number of third-party apps available for those with smart meters which make monthly statement reconciliation very easy and quick:

C_Mababejive

Good idea or not, they are here. Everyone will have them eventually because the manufacture and supply of traditional meters is being tapered off.

The concept of smart meters is a brilliant one but sadly, as with many government driven initiatives, there are big issues and many of them so obvious that one wonders why they didnt spot them from the get go.

Take for instance the issue of data portability? One fool would press the go button on a national project whereby the meters installed didnt allow for data portability?

Of course things are improving greatly though standards and quality of service vary from supplier to supplier.

Some suppliers are much more proactive and innovative than others. Octopus for example are very big on smarts and innovative tariffs.

Some of the big issues in my view are;
Quality of install and competence
What happens when things go wrong? For example ,all smarts can be used as credit or prepayment meters. The gas meters have an inbuilt valve mechanism. What if it fails and you suddenly have no gas? Will the call centre answer the phone? What hours are they available? How quickly will they fix it?

In my experience all of the above are very variable.

OFGEM and the law sets out clear standards for attending to no gas or no electricity issues which require engineer visits yet many call handler staff seem blissfully unaware of them. I've known people with no supply for days simply because they cant get through on the phone or if they do, they are being fed duff information.

Ultrasonic

eastcorkram said:

deano2099 said:

casjen said:

Smart meters are totally pointless. In this digital age sending the readings over your phone/pc every month ensures both, you know the company has got them and B they are accurate. The don't save you any money whatsoever.  Just digital junk.

A 5 minute job, once a month means an hour every year of your life.
Over 24 years that's a day of your life. 

Now normally with this you'd have to weight up against the downsides - but other than specific suppliers having issues on some specific tariffs, there aren't really any.

Regardless of the other benefits, it's just cutting one menial task out of my life that has no benefit to me. The time saving isn't amazing but it's also far from nothing.

But, do you not then see the bill or statement, and then read the meter anyway to see if they're right? Or do you just trust them to Bill you correctly?

I'd do a sanity check on a bill whether using a dumb or smart meter. Also note that if someone has a working IHD they can get a manual meter reading more conveniently than with a typical dumb meter too. 

SAC2334

British Gas were the first by a few years to install their own version of electric and gas  smart meters well before the other big 5 started fitting them  . I saw the first prototypes in operation around 2010. By 2012 they were installing them at a rapid rate and they were mandatory.
The idea that an occupier  could have a say in what type of meter could be installed was absolutely ludicrous back then  and  no one ever denied their installation . In those days you got what you got or they would threaten to cut you off .The DNO s fitted them and owned them unlike now when every little tin pot here today gone tomorrow supplier was ordered to arrange to "fit " or "offer " one .

.With a Labour government in power and Ed Miliband as Energy Minister  thats how it was and that is how the rest of Europe and Republic of Ireland all installed them except for Germany and I think Sweden gave the population a choice . They were all mandatory .

Really odd for a Tory Government to gain power in 2012 and act very liberally and give people a choice . This was a massive mistake IMO and its coming home to roost now with occupants meter tampering in large numbers throughout the UK which could have been stopped if the Torys had followed Labours view and force fitted smart meters. I think if they had done that we would have been virtually all smart meters by now .

 The suppliers are pretty rubbish at fitting meters compared to how the DNO s did en masse in one street to all occupants whoever they were  supplied by . 

Chrysalis

I think the points are valid about the handling of faults post install, thats an industry problem rather than a smart meter one.

Its difficult to get suppliers to deal with faulty dumb meters not just faulty smart meters.  They just seem to not want to know.

Freebird53

A number of years ago, BG sent me a nifty little gadget which i simply attached around (it was a coil) to the incoming supply, and which had a nice little display, which i could position anywhere in the house to give me a readout of electrical energy use and the cost. Are they still available?

[Deleted User]

Chrysalis said:

I think the points are valid about the handling of faults post install, thats an industry problem rather than a smart meter one.

Its difficult to get suppliers to deal with faulty dumb meters not just faulty smart meters.  They just seem to not want to know.

That is down to the way that our Government has implemented smart metering. Rather than go for a top down directed system, the Government has elected for one where suppliers make most of the decisions. Meter and device manufacturers are permitted to design; build and test their meters and devices on the DCC network. All these devices have bespoke firmware. The same parties are responsible for developing new firmware if there any problems.  The supplier’s role is primarily to make a meter selection; install it and then monitor the commissioning process.

The DCC is responsible for the network and all the secure communications hubs. The communications hubs are at the root of most smart metering problems. The DCC is not consumer facing.

When things go wrong, suppliers can only lean on other parties to put things right. I am sure that this is as frustrating for them as it is for their customers.

QrizB

casjen said:

Smart meters are totally pointless. In this digital age sending the readings over your phone/pc every month ensures both, you know the company has got them and B they are accurate. The don't save you any money whatsoever.  Just digital junk.

Speaking from personal experience, my smart meter allowed me to switch to a smart time-of-use tariff that has saved me something like £300 over the past 12 months.