APP scam

she_c

My bank has completed an investigation into campervan scam, and i am left with no money. What do i do next.?

soolin

she_c said:

My bank has completed an investigation into campervan scam, and i am left with no money. What do i do next.?

I think we might need some more information to even begin to make suggestions. 

GadgetGuru

I'm completely lost - unless you are clearer about what happened, how are we supposed to advise you?

soolin

she_c said:

Gave all information to my bank fraud department, action fraud and ebay. No idea what anyone did, data protection. Action fraud said they could not identify a line of enquiry to forward to police, bank stated i would not be reimbursed under sections SF1 and R2, receiving bank stated they have met standards of care in the code therefore no liability, but they did not give a breakdown of their assessment.

We need information to be able to help. For a start I am assuming you were the buyer , but rereading the posts I might have misunderstood and perhaps you were the seller? 

How were you scammed, what did you pay for, how did you pay, what did you get. Do you have full geographic and accurate address details for the ‘seller’?

marcia_

Code R2 is i here it's about who is vulnerable or not and ignoring warnings. 

Were you given watnings you ignored when setting up the payment? 

https://appcrmsteeringgroup.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/APP-Scams-SG-Draft-Code-FINAL.pdf

Found the other code in the same section 

   The Customer did not take appropriate actions following a clear negative Confirmation of Payee result, where the Firm complied with SF1(3) or SF2(2), and those actions would, in the circumstances, have been effective in preventing the APP fraud

 So the details didn't match, your bank warned you. You clicked to pay anyway therefore they are not responsible as they tried to warn you and you chose to ignore? 

km1500

"Or should i just accept the fact that being a senile old computer illiterate person, who expects people to be honest and possess morals, i am living in a bygone age, and a target for APP scams. Scary world. "

True, there are a lot of baddies out there,and we all have to be careful. But say they had asked you to post cash to them at a PO Box number (instead of making a bank payment) - would you have done it?

A bank transfer is just as dangerous to someone you don't know, especially if you are told the name details don't match.

soolin

It is nothing to do with age, as someone who is also old enough to be considered 'old' I'm never happy when people suggest we somehow lose all sense of safety.

Even in the 'good old days' people would get conned with the old pub van scam ,for those too young to remember pre computer days that was when someone would go into a pub or social event claiming to have stuff on the van that he needed to get rid of. It could be something as simple as towels, or a tape machine. They would offer them at a knock down price and take money claiming he just needed to go back to the van that was parked down the road. He'd leave the sample bale of towels, or tape machine in the pub - making himself look genuine, and just never come back. That's basically how all scams work- getting cash (or the equivalent like bank transfer) from punters who think they are getting a bargain.

Nowadays bank transfers carry all sorts of warnings, I couldn't even pay one of my nephews for something recently without confirming I wasn't being scammed and yes I knew the person and no I wasn't being pressurised into passing a sum of money across. Those warnings should be enough to make someone think twice about the safety of basically giving cash to a stranger.

Unfortunately I can't see much of a way forward here and I just hope it wasn't a large sum of money involved. Small claims would only work if you could get a definite confirmed geographic address for the scam seller, and that might prove difficult. 

Spoonie_Turtle

marcia_ said:

Code R2 is i here it's about who is vulnerable or not and ignoring warnings. 

Were you given watnings you ignored when setting up the payment? 

https://appcrmsteeringgroup.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/APP-Scams-SG-Draft-Code-FINAL.pdf

Found the other code in the same section 

   The Customer did not take appropriate actions following a clear negative Confirmation of Payee result, where the Firm complied with SF1(3) or SF2(2), and those actions would, in the circumstances, have been effective in preventing the APP fraud

 So the details didn't match, your bank warned you. You clicked to pay anyway therefore they are not responsible as they tried to warn you and you chose to ignore? 

You've jumped to a conclusion specifically contradicted by what the OP has written multiple times, on the basis of one of any number of possibilities under those codes.

The typo of SF! indicates it was actually SF1, "Sending Firms should take reasonable steps to protect their Customers from APP fraud.  This should include procedures to detect, prevent and respond to APP fraud.  Procedures should provide a greater level of protection for Customers who are considered vulnerable to APP fraud." 

One of the R2 possibilities is 1a: "The Customer ignored Effective Warnings, given by a Firm in compliance with SF1(2), by failing to take appropriate action in response to such an Effective Warning"

So it could well be that because the warnings are to never pay anyone you don't know personally / don't feel pressured / make sure it's not a scam and OP went ahead certain it was legit, that's why they're not being refunded.

The account details and name matching are evidently not enough to be certain you can trust someone.  It's basically just the safeguard against mistyped details and payments going into the wrong accounts.

MalMonroe

Hi, if the van was listed on eBay wasn't there a proper auction or sale? What happened when the auction or sale ended on eBay? Were you the lucky buyer? I don't understand how this seller managed to get people to pay a deposit.

What have eBay said? Can they help you? Have you reported the villainous seller? eBay always advise reporting such people in order to save other customers suffering similar fates. eBay are failing in their duty if they are not taking notice of what buyers are telling them about some of their sellers. Especially if this person has another van for sale on eBay. It's unscrupulous.

You said "seller stated he had people after van and would need a deposit" but that isn't how eBay works. It's a well known scam to get people fighting over pricing.

You also said "Or should i just accept the fact that being a senile old computer illiterate person, who expects people to be honest and possess morals, i am living in a bygone age, and a target for APP scams. Scary world." and as soolin says above, it isn't anything to do with age. You don't seem to be computer illiterate to me.

Normally if you follow the eBay process correctly, you are entitled to 100% of your money back when a sale goes wrong. But you do have to follow their procedures.

Please do complain to eBay because this seller is getting away with fraud and also they're continuing to try to sell on eBay. 

You can also report the seller to police yourself since he's still trying to scam other people on eBay and, unlike Action Fraud, you DO have some lines of enquiry. 

Before complaining to my bank I would ask if I could have an appointment to see someone about this matter. Sometimes you can get your money back. It's worth a try. 

Pollycat

MalMonroe said:

Hi, if the van was listed on eBay wasn't there a proper auction or sale? What happened when the auction or sale ended on eBay? Were you the lucky buyer? I don't understand how this seller managed to get people to pay a deposit.

What have eBay said? Can they help you? Have you reported the villainous seller? eBay always advise reporting such people in order to save other customers suffering similar fates. eBay are failing in their duty if they are not taking notice of what buyers are telling them about some of their sellers. Especially if this person has another van for sale on eBay. It's unscrupulous.

You said "seller stated he had people after van and would need a deposit" but that isn't how eBay works. It's a well known scam to get people fighting over pricing.

You also said "Or should i just accept the fact that being a senile old computer illiterate person, who expects people to be honest and possess morals, i am living in a bygone age, and a target for APP scams. Scary world." and as soolin says above, it isn't anything to do with age. You don't seem to be computer illiterate to me.

Normally if you follow the eBay process correctly, you are entitled to 100% of your money back when a sale goes wrong. But you do have to follow their procedures.

Please do complain to eBay because this seller is getting away with fraud and also they're continuing to try to sell on eBay. 

You can also report the seller to police yourself since he's still trying to scam other people on eBay and, unlike Action Fraud, you DO have some lines of enquiry. 

Before complaining to my bank I would ask if I could have an appointment to see someone about this matter. Sometimes you can get your money back. It's worth a try. 

I wonder if Ebay are not taking action because the of this:

Contact or payment outside of eBay: eBay Messages is the safest way to contact other members. Always be careful if a seller asks for your personal contact details, such as an email address or phone number. They may be trying to get you to complete a purchase outside of eBay, for example by paying cash or transferring money to an overseas account. This is against our policy, and your purchase wouldn't be covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee

(from eBay help section)

Lorian

Keep in mind this could potentially be caused by compromised email account / mail interception (Buyer or Vendor).