Hoops to jump through for transfer to SIPP

handful

I have a small pension (circa £23k) with Phoenix life (previously NPI) which I wish to transfer to my SIPP and they seem to be making it incredibly difficult to the point that it feels like they deliberately trying to block me from doing so. I tried to use II's transfer service and they reached a point where they could go no further until I had returned some "due diligence" forms. I did this a few days ago and now I have received another form to complete, pasted below. Is this really necessary? Most of the questions aren't relevant because I haven't taken advice from an advisor and I haven't decided what funds I will be investing in yet. I've known for some time that I wouldn't lose and guarantees or bonus payments once I reached 60 which was the retirement age assigned to the policy when I took it out in the 80s.I did check that was definitely still the case and PL confirmed that is the case. I understand the need for scam prevention but is it any of their business who I invest with in the future? I'm not looking to crystallise, just transfer into another wrapper. Am I obliged to get formal advice from an IFA on this? TIA

Did you receive any advice regarding this pension transfer request? If so by who? (full name and details please)

Please confirm how you come into contact with the Financial Advisor?

What advice have they given you? (have you received a suitability advice report from them and did they discuss multiple schemes and options with you?)   Do you believe the advice you have received is UK regulated?

Can you provide the registration details of your advisor and/or firm?

How did you hear about the receiving scheme?  What are your main reasons for wanting to transfer your pension from Phoenix Life?

Do you feel pressured to make the pension transfer? If so what has made you feel pressured?

Please provide us with full details of how your money will be invested in this scheme? (please specify the chosen funds etc)  Who chose the investments?

Do you know if any money will be in an overseas investment? If so, please provide details of the overseas investment.

Do you know if any money will be invested in unregulated or high risk investments?

Can you please confirm what your risk level is defined as?

What is it that you want to achieve through this transfer that you cannot achieve in your current scheme?

What are the fees that will be charged for setting up the pension and the ongoing fees that will affect the value of your investment over time?

Have you been provided with an illustration of the fees charged? If so, please provide details.

How do these fee’s compare to the fees applied under your Phoenix policy?

Are there any other fees that may be charged in addition to those to set up the pension? For example there may be annual management charges, platform fees, underlying fund fees, inactivity fees and exit charges. It is important that all the fees are considered as they may eat into the value of your investment.

Please provide any other information you think may be relevant for us to proceed with your transfer request. For example promotional materials or other information about the receiving scheme.

MallyGirl

OH did find it quite stressful as he just had to keep saying n/a, No, and the like while they threw lots of dire warnings at him. It is just a fact of life and you only have to do it once.

handful

MallyGirl said:

OH did find it quite stressful as he just had to keep saying n/a, No, and the like while they threw lots of dire warnings at him. It is just a fact of life and you only have to do it once.

Thanks MallyGirl but this is the third batch of questions so far!

dunstonh

I have a small pension (circa £23k) with Phoenix life (previously NPI) which I wish to transfer to my SIPP and they seem to be making it incredibly difficult to the point that it feels like they deliberately trying to block me from doing so.

I find it pretty easy dealing with Phoenix (Peterborough).  They usually transfer very quickly.

I did this a few days ago and now I have received another form to complete, pasted below. Is this really necessary?

If the origo transfer system is used, then usually, these forms are not necessary as firms using origo are your mainstream "safe" firms.   When origo is not used, the ceding scheme will often issue a questionnaire to find out why you are transferring and whether the anti-fraud team needs to get involved.    There is some filtering involved before they decide who to get to answer the questions.   For example, they will know that ii is not somewhere were advisers will place clients.   So, there is a risk that a scammer is getting you to do the work to transfer the pension.   Hence why they are asking if you are using an adviser.   Its not that they expect you to give details of a real adviser.  They either expect you to say there isn't one or if you do give details, it won't actually be an adviser but a scammer.  They can then intercept it and save your money being lost.

I understand the need for scam prevention but is it any of their business who I invest with in the future?

There isn't a need for you to be so precious on that detail.   They are looking for responses like Cape Verde property, forestry or biofuels etc.     All the things that set off alarm bells with scammers.     

Am I obliged to get formal advice from an IFA on this? 

No. But they are not asking for that.

Albermarle

It is strange, because when I transferred an Aviva and a SW pension to a SIPP, I did not get asked any questions at all.

handful

dunstonh said:

I have a small pension (circa £23k) with Phoenix life (previously NPI) which I wish to transfer to my SIPP and they seem to be making it incredibly difficult to the point that it feels like they deliberately trying to block me from doing so.

I find it pretty easy dealing with Phoenix (Peterborough).  They usually transfer very quickly.

I did this a few days ago and now I have received another form to complete, pasted below. Is this really necessary?

If the origo transfer system is used, then usually, these forms are not necessary as firms using origo are your mainstream "safe" firms.   When origo is not used, the ceding scheme will often issue a questionnaire to find out why you are transferring and whether the anti-fraud team needs to get involved.    There is some filtering involved before they decide who to get to answer the questions.   For example, they will know that ii is not somewhere were advisers will place clients.   So, there is a risk that a scammer is getting you to do the work to transfer the pension.   Hence why they are asking if you are using an adviser.   Its not that they expect you to give details of a real adviser.  They either expect you to say there isn't one or if you do give details, it won't actually be an adviser but a scammer.  They can then intercept it and save your money being lost.

Thanks dunstonh. They told we in the first instance they are unable to transfer using the origi transfer system. I had to wait for them to send me an information pack. I then had to confirm I understood the information in the pack. They then sent me a due diligence pack which I partially completed and also sent certain questions to II for them to answer on my behalf. They then requested that I send them the answers from II with the rest of the due diligence pack and now I have received these questions this morning via email! Seems completely OTT to me and it's taken since just after my birthday in June so far. I will respond with a load of No and NA answers and see where that takes me next. Thanks for the response

handful

Albermarle said:

It is strange, because when I transferred an Aviva and a SW pension to a SIPP, I did not get asked any questions at all.

I have transferred another pension in using origi and it took a few days and I had no problems at all.

dunstonh

It is strange, because when I transferred an Aviva and a SW pension to a SIPP, I did not get asked any questions at all.

Was that before or after the FCA changed the requirements?
Did you transfer using origo or the old fashioned way with discharge forms?

Thanks dunstonh. They told we in the first instance they are unable to transfer using the origi transfer system. I had to wait for them to send me an information pack. I then had to confirm I understood the information in the pack. They then sent me a due diligence pack which I partially completed and also sent certain questions to II for them to answer on my behalf. 

It sounds like one bit is the discharge forms and the other bit is the questionnaire.  Many providers issue these at the same time if you pre-request the discharge forms.    Discharge forms are only required where origo is not being used.   

I thought ex NPI plans out of the Peterborough office of Phoenix used Origo.    However, some legacy plans that are non-standard can fail on Origo. EPPs, S32s and some S226s with protected tax free cash or safeguarded benefits.

Seems completely OTT to me and it's taken since just after my birthday in June so far. 

The key, when origo is not being used, is to get these forms in advance and send them to the receiving scheme. They then send them the same time as their own forms.  It speeds things up significantly where Origo is not used.

Albermarle

Was that before or after the FCA changed the requirements?

I do not know, one was about 3 years ago and one about 18 months ago.

Did you transfer using origo or the old fashioned way with discharge forms?

Both Origo, and one took less than 48 hours. 

dunstonh

I do not know, one was about 3 years ago and one about 18 months ago.

Both of those are before the extra requirements.

Both Origo, and one took less than 48 hours. 

Origo makes things easier.  If origo cannot be used, you are usually talking in weeks or months and have a bunch of forms involved.

Marcon

handful said:

dunstonh said:

I have a small pension (circa £23k) with Phoenix life (previously NPI) which I wish to transfer to my SIPP and they seem to be making it incredibly difficult to the point that it feels like they deliberately trying to block me from doing so.

I find it pretty easy dealing with Phoenix (Peterborough).  They usually transfer very quickly.

I did this a few days ago and now I have received another form to complete, pasted below. Is this really necessary?

If the origo transfer system is used, then usually, these forms are not necessary as firms using origo are your mainstream "safe" firms.   When origo is not used, the ceding scheme will often issue a questionnaire to find out why you are transferring and whether the anti-fraud team needs to get involved.    There is some filtering involved before they decide who to get to answer the questions.   For example, they will know that ii is not somewhere were advisers will place clients.   So, there is a risk that a scammer is getting you to do the work to transfer the pension.   Hence why they are asking if you are using an adviser.   Its not that they expect you to give details of a real adviser.  They either expect you to say there isn't one or if you do give details, it won't actually be an adviser but a scammer.  They can then intercept it and save your money being lost.

Thanks dunstonh. They told we in the first instance they are unable to transfer using the origi transfer system. I had to wait for them to send me an information pack. I then had to confirm I understood the information in the pack. They then sent me a due diligence pack which I partially completed and also sent certain questions to II for them to answer on my behalf. They then requested that I send them the answers from II with the rest of the due diligence pack and now I have received these questions this morning via email! Seems completely OTT to me and it's taken since just after my birthday in June so far. I will respond with a load of No and NA answers and see where that takes me next. Thanks for the response

You have my sympathy - I can completely understand why you feel this is OTT and it sounds as if this is a perfectly respectable deal which is just taking ages, rather than a scam attempt. The problem is that that consumer protection means (as in your case) what seems to be heavy-handed over protection, since filtering out scammers is far from easy. Looking at the vast numbers of people being conned, and the amounts of money they lose/the impact on their lives, please grit your teeth and press on without feeling too hard done by. At least you'll still have your savings once the deal is done.