Red Flag? Seller doesn't want to help with proving the extension was signed off correctly

spotty_dog343

House I am buying has a small 2-storey extension. 

The seller's solicitor is pushing back and saying they will not provide any planning permission/planning documents from the extension. (Since it's over the number of years where it could be enforced and it was done before this seller bought it). 

A load-bearing wall was removed in the process, hence why I really want to see that it was signed off properly.

Now I am just waiting for my solicitor to dig up anything on the extension, which could take slightly longer. If they wanted a speedy sale surely they would have tried to clear up some of the planning questions/documents? 

UnderOffer

I would imagine they probably don’t have the documentation rather than “not” wanting to provide it. Have you looked on your local council planning portal site to see if anything is registered to the address? 

Ath_Wat

spotty_dog343 said:

House I am buying has a small 2-storey extension. 

The seller's solicitor is pushing back and saying they will not provide any planning permission/planning documents from the extension. (Since it's over the number of years where it could be enforced and it was done before this seller bought it). 

A load-bearing wall was removed in the process, hence why I really want to see that it was signed off properly.

Now I am just waiting for my solicitor to dig up anything on the extension, which could take slightly longer. If they wanted a speedy sale surely they would have tried to clear up some of the planning questions/documents? 

If it was done before they moved in and they never asked the question, what exactly are you expecting them to do?  Why do you think it will take your solicitor longer to do anything than it would take them?

aoleks

have you checked the council website for planning permission? it might give you some details about what was built and potentially how. do NOT contact the council with any questions about this, it would invalidate any potential future indemnity insurance.

your surveyor should be able to check the basics. look for usual signs of problems: damp spots, significant cracks, walls coming loose, no ventilation, doors/windows that are difficult to open/close, render to hide defects, poor workmanship (brickwork, roof), leaks etc.

armed with that and the level 3 survey, you should know if there's anything going on. a 2-storey extension is not a small project, if anything would've been botched, you should start seeing serious signs after so many years.

eddddy

spotty_dog343 said:

A load-bearing wall was removed in the process, hence why I really want to see that it was signed off properly.

It's very likely that you won't be able to find any documentation anywhere relating to this.

I suspect your only real option is to hire a structural engineer to take a look at the extension.

I doubt that the seller will allow the structural engineer to hack off the plaster to look at the joist and bearing - but the engineer might be able to give you some reassurance that it looks ok (or doesn't look ok).

I guess you could also ask the seller if you can get trial holes dug around the extension, so that the structural engineer can inspect the foundations. But people very rarely do that.



When you buy a property there are usually lots of 'unknowns' - for example, you generally can't inspect wooden joists under floorboards, you don't really know the condition of the foundations, etc.

You usually just have to accept the risks / unknowns of buying a house or walk away instead.

user1977

spotty_dog343 said:

The seller's solicitor is pushing back and saying they will not provide any planning permission/planning documents from the extension. (Since it's over the number of years where it could be enforced and it was done before this seller bought it). 

So how old is it?

spotty_dog343

aoleks said:

have you checked the council website for planning permission? it might give you some details about what was built and potentially how. do NOT contact the council with any questions about this, it would invalidate any potential future indemnity insurance.

your surveyor should be able to check the basics. look for usual signs of problems: damp spots, significant cracks, walls coming loose, no ventilation, doors/windows that are difficult to open/close, render to hide defects, poor workmanship (brickwork, roof), leaks etc.

armed with that and the level 3 survey, you should know if there's anything going on. a 2-storey extension is not a small project, if anything would've been botched, you should start seeing serious signs after so many years.

Yep checked the online council planning portal and nothing shows there.

the surveyor just said they can see a load-bearing wall has been removed, but they couldn't comment on anything else as it had all been covered up.

spotty_dog343

user1977 said:

spotty_dog343 said:

The seller's solicitor is pushing back and saying they will not provide any planning permission/planning documents from the extension. (Since it's over the number of years where it could be enforced and it was done before this seller bought it). 

So how old is it?

At least before 2006

km1500

If a load bearing wall has been removed then there should be building control records somewhere as you are not allowed to do this without building regs.

if there are none then I would walk away. They don't call it a load bearing wall for nothing

edit:  I would also point out that if anything happens in the future e.g. a collapse then you will be responsible as you have been specifically warned about what has happened to the property and indeed I'd be surprised if your insurance was valid. You would certainly need to declare it to them when insuring the oroperty.

user1977

km1500 said:

I'd be surprised if your insurance was valid. You would certainly need to declare it to them when insuring the oroperty.

Yes it would, and no you don't. Insurers do not ask about this sort of thing.

However, buildings insurance does not (normally) cover the risk of a building falling down due to poor workmanship etc anyway, no matter what consents the works had.

lincroft1710

km1500 said:

If a load bearing wall has been removed then there should be building control records somewhere as you are not allowed to do this without building regs.

Just because Building Regs should have been applied for doesn't mean they were. There must be thousands of non BR compliant alterations carried out over the years.