what is the rule/deal with wind turbine energy selling/usage - ADVICE NEEDED!!

boohoo2022

hi all again

so to cut a long story short a major lot of businesses on my island are about to close down cos of the energy crisis BUT the trading company they pay their bills to had a half dozen wind turbines insstalled about 5 years ago. Now i thougnt the turbines supplies energy to the businesses (of which i have been and am currently employed) BUT it appears the Chair of the Trading Company only set them to sell their prodiuction down the Grid.

Now, facing bankruptsy i want to know (cos i was told but i have looked online and dont know who is the right official to ask)- can a wind turbine produce energy and the owner/ trading company get paoid for the energy produced BUT at the same time the energy be used (by the Trading Company- or the businesses accountable to it)??

As of now the wiring is not set up for usage- only selling it to the Grid. So as of this week a number of us are facing redundancy and the long term future of the small communuity is in jeapardy.

Is it possible (i am lead to believe but can not find info) to get the turbines wired to the businesses so the energy is supplied by them (therefore bills will be practically zero) BUT at the same time the ebergy company PAY the trading company for the energy production?- i always thought it was one or the other- either you make it and sell it, but then pay for energy (generally for less than the prce you sold it at) - OR you make it and use it =zero balance. What am i missing here? Does anyone know where i find out? I checked out energy co websote and they are just about bills and not about turbines...... anyone....?

[Deleted User]

It sounds like you’re asking if you can use and sell the same electricity? I don’t know of any ‘deemed export’ arrangements from commercial installations.

QrizB

boohoo2022 said:

Is it possible (i am lead to believe but can not find info) to get the turbines wired to the businesses so the energy is supplied by them (therefore bills will be practically zero) BUT at the same time the ebergy company PAY the trading company for the energy production?

I agree with SparkyGrad.

The short answer is no, you can't.

The generating company can sell to the grid, or the energy company can give it away to the businesses. They can't do both.

boohoo2022

sparky grad- so what you say is what i always assumed but someone in a high position and should be knowledgable here says - (and this is not word for word) that the turbine produces energy and the turbine owner gets paid for that, but the energy produced can be used, or sent down the grid, and it does not affect the payment to the turbine owner. They said it with such conviction i need to know where this belief comes from, if its not true. Most people here have turbines for their homes and i think waht happens is they get paid for the energy they dont use (so on windy days they get paid, and on still day they have to pay for their leccy). I wish there were a FAQ or something somewhere, as i say the local energy co website is only interested in new customers and billing

[Deleted User]

You’re talking about two different things.  A turbine owner can use the electricity, or can sell it to the grid. They can’t do both.

They don’t get paid unless they export it.

Unless there is some incredibly unusual bespoke local arrangement - but I’ve never heard of one like it.

Apodemus

[Deleted User] said:

You’re talking about two different things.  A turbine owner can use the electricity, or can sell it to the grid. They can’t do both.

They don’t get paid unless they export it.

Unless there is some incredibly unusual bespoke local arrangement - but I’ve never heard of one like it.

But they would still get the ROCs rate if they were using it themselves, wouldn't they? 

Apodemus

boohoo2022 said:

... BUT it appears the Chair of the Trading Company only set them to sell their prodiuction down the Grid.

It may have been the Chair's idea, but there is presumably a Board of Directors and if this is a community company, the Board is presumably elected by the community and answerable to them at every AGM (as well as "down the pub", at the local shop and basically every time they put their head out the door!).  Community empowerment is great, but individuals in the community need to understand that they are actively responsible for the decisions taken!

[Deleted User]

Apodemus said:

[Deleted User] said:

You’re talking about two different things.  A turbine owner can use the electricity, or can sell it to the grid. They can’t do both.

They don’t get paid unless they export it.

Unless there is some incredibly unusual bespoke local arrangement - but I’ve never heard of one like it.

But they would still get the ROCs rate if they were using it themselves, wouldn't they? 

What do you mean “the ROCs rate”?

There are ROCs, which are certificates that you get for each MWh generated and that you can sell independently from the electricity.

And there are REGOs, which are certificates that prove the electricity was renewable and that go with the electricity sale.

5 years ago might even have been too late to be eligible for ROCs, as only generators that had been completed prior to 31 March 2017 were eligible.

Apodemus

Deleted_User said:

Apodemus said:

Deleted_User said:

You’re talking about two different things.  A turbine owner can use the electricity, or can sell it to the grid. They can’t do both.

They don’t get paid unless they export it.

Unless there is some incredibly unusual bespoke local arrangement - but I’ve never heard of one like it.

But they would still get the ROCs rate if they were using it themselves, wouldn't they? 

What do you mean “the ROCs rate”?

There are ROCs, which are certificates that you get for each MWh generated and that you can sell independently from the electricity.

And there are REGOs, which are certificates that prove the electricity was renewable and that go with the electricity sale.

5 years ago might even have been too late to be eligible for ROCs, as only generators that had been completed prior to 31 March 2017 were eligible.

Yes, I mean Renewables Obligation Certificates.   The OP sounds like their case is a long-standing arrangement and quite a number of community schemes were set up under the old ROCs process.  These allow the Community Company to earn money from the wind trubines, while either selling the electricity to the grid or using it directly and were particularly useful in remote off-grid situations.

In the OP's case, it seems that the Community is grid connected and chose not to sell the electricity directly to the local businesses.  This would have been quite understandable at the time as it removes a lot of hassles, obligations and responsibilities, which few communities would have felt competent to take on.

The OP seems to think that the electricity costs nothing to produce, but the community may be paying loan charges for the "half dozen" turbines.   If the OP wants to give us all a clue to where this is, we can probably track down the specifics.  In practice there are probably only two or three schemes which fit the description and if there really is a raft of local business closures because of the costs, I'm sure that there are local agencies who will be able to offer advice and support (and may well aready be on the case).

[Deleted User]

At least I know that because it is “on an island” it wasn’t one of the installations that I designed.

And yes, assuming it was ROC eligible, the turbine owners should still be able to sell the ROCs in the open market even if they supply the energy locally.

boohoo2022

apodemeum i think i need your expertise on this matter. as i insinuated i dont know hw these things work - im only going on what others have told me about the turbines, sadly there is always one in a comunity who doesnt listen to anyone else (dictator springs to mind- it been going on for donekys years and is the source of much anger and annoyance, i cant go into it but believe me the other directors are trying to do right by the companies but being stopped by the Chair (sadly only needed one ally to get voted in- due to low number of voters/ directors)

so maybe what i heard about was ROC- that sounds like generating, then selling and also using at the same time. Turbines went up when there was funding for it all. I dont know, but will find out if a loan is still being paid off or not.

If there were Agencies on the case i would not be asking here believe me, i got jobs to apply for! But ive looked all over the internet and found a Funder that would support renewable energy being used for a business but i wanted to understand the logistics (which most of you on here confirm my suspicions that you can not both use and sell the energy generated- but the ROC sounds like what i heard talked about....