Fistral Beach - Initial Parking - Cornwall

ryou4me

Hi

Parking charge recently received within the last week from Initial Parking for Fistral Beach Car Park, Newquay Cornwall
Car park apparently uses ANPR which shows on the notice received

Keeper of car received a notice to keeper of charge 

Ticket was not bought as signs were unclear in the car park, stay was less than an hour and decided to leave

Mobile Reception was patchy and app could not be downloaded to pay for parking  

Any point in disputing this charge? Charge is £100 (reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days)

What are the chances of disputing and winning

Le_Kirk

Did you mean the keeper of the car received a NTK?  There is no list of owners so Initial wouldn't be able to send it to an "owner". Were the signs so confusing that you didn't know whether you had to pay or not?  Was it dark/dusk?  Was the PDT non-functioning?  Did you try to use an app but could not get any signal or the app failed?

Coupon-mad

No chance of winning on appeal if the driver didn't pay at all, unless the signs are so ambiguous about what the operational times are that the driver was duped into thinking they were parking out of hours or something.

However, the keeper could decide to just ignore it.  Initial don't sue people and it is unlikely anything will happen except laughable DRPlus letters, as seen in post #4 of the NEWBIES thread.

That stance obviously means if the keeper moves house within 6 years, they must tell Initial by email, to erase the old address.  You can never let a PPC hold a wrong address just in case they break the habit of a lifetime and issue a claim.

Other than that, you could opt to sit tight.

ryou4me

Le_Kirk said:

Did you mean the keeper of the car received a NTK?  There is no list of owners so Initial wouldn't be able to send it to an "owner". Were the signs so confusing that you didn't know whether you had to pay or not?  Was it dark/dusk?  Was the PDT non-functioning?  Did you try to use an app but could not get any signal or the app failed?

Apologies, meant keeper of car received a NTK, yes

It was evening time and yes the signs were confusing and not clear at all as there are several sections to the car park in question 

and reception was patchy

Between all of that it was decided not to park and car park vacated I believe 

ryou4me

Coupon-mad said:

No chance of winning on appeal if the driver didn't pay at all, unless the signs are so ambiguous about what the operational times are that the driver was duped into thinking they were parking out of hours or something.

Signs are very ambiguous and there are multiple areas to the car park and not clear that they use ANPR which isn't accurate from what I read on other posts 

Coupon-mad said:

However, the keeper could decide to just ignore it.  Initial don't sue people and it is unlikely anything will happen except laughable DRPlus letters, as seen in post #4 of the NEWBIES thread.

That stance obviously means if the keeper moves house within 6 years, they must tell Initial by email, to erase the old address.  You can never let a PPC hold a wrong address just in case they break the habit of a lifetime and issue a claim.

Other than that, you could opt to sit tight.

Ok, so keeper can expect some debt recovery letters from DRPlus and then likelyhood of giving up, sounds like a very good option currently 

ryou4me

@Coupon-mad

At this stage, would it be recommended that the keeper dispute or contact initial parking?

Or make a SAR to initial parking?

Fruitcake

The keeper could appeal using the template in blue text from the NEWBIES just to show they engaged with the PPC should this ever go to court.

I would save an SAR for a court case. If the keeper has an NTK and ANPR was used, then they probably have all the personal data held by the PPC.

ryou4me

@Fruitcake is it the section that starts

"TEMPLATE ''ONE SIZE FITS ALL'' FIRST APPEAL THAT DOESN'T SAY WHO WAS DRIVING:

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle."

So keeper would use above and appeal on their website and email also if available

Their website has the following information:-

Appeals Information:

If you wish to appeal this Parking Charge Notice you can visit us at www.initialparking.co.uk or write to us as per the address on your Parking Charge Notice. All appeals must be received with 28 days from the date of our initial. correspondence. Once received your Parking Charge Notice will be put on hold. We must respond to you within 35 days. If we reject your appeal we will respond to you in writing and give you the contact details for Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA) – the Independent Appeals Service. Please note that this currently only applies to Parking Charge Notices issued on Private Lane in England and Wales from October 1st 2012

Should the keeper wait until the end of the first 28 day period or appeal now as keeper?

Thanks 

Fruitcake

There is only one appeal template in blue text in the NEWBIES. You appeal using the PPC's appeal portal if they have one. There is no need to email unless there is no alternative.

There is no point in waiting to appeal if the keeper has received a NTK. Waiting is only advised when a NTD has been given.

ryou4me

Great thanks

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Keeper appeal on initial parking website done

I'm guessing the keeper awaits the DRPlus letters now

Any other action now - complaints to landowner, local MP anything else that would help as keeper?

Fruitcake

Always complain to the landowner and your MP.

Following an initial appeal (no pun intended) the keeper will be offered a PoPLA code. There is no harm in making a PoPLA appeal using all the points available from the third post of the NEWBIES.

Debt collector letters should not be received during the appeals process but can be expected if PoPLA appeal fails. Note that a PoPLA decision is not binding on the motorist.