wood burners

billiebean

Any thoughts on whether wood burners are a cheaper way of heating than gas or electric?

ProDave

Mine is much cheaper as we are nearly self sufficient with wood. But I don't think I would bother if I had to buy all my firewood.

ariarnia

it depends on what you pay for your wood. i think someone said there were about 4 kilowatts of energy in each kilo of  seasoned logs (less than 20% moisture air dry or kiln there's not much difference) so you would need to pay less than the price of 4 kw of gas or electric (depending on what your alternative would be). so if comparing to gas then less than about 42p per kilo or £417 per ton (remember a ton builders bag is often only about half a ton of weight because the volume of wood is less than something like sand). not allowing for any loss of heat up the chimney (the same as not allowing for an old boiler being less efficient)

dunstonh

billiebean said:

Any thoughts on whether wood burners are a cheaper way of heating than gas or electric?

Many rural older properties with oil central heating work much the same way as it reduces their oil use.   However, these are houses that were designed and built with log fires and burners in mind.   They tend to have airflows that help spread the heat.  And rooms that can be lived in all day without the need to go into other rooms (such as large kitchens).  So, you can heat that room without using much heating in the rest.

So, if you have the right property, it could work.   However, if you have the wrong property, it will be a lifestyle choice rather than a cost choice.   

If your family spreads out around the house, it won't be as effective as if you spend most of the time in one or two rooms.

For us it works due to house and lifestyle. Plus, around half of the wood we burn is from our own trees.   And from next year, I will have enough of our own wood to last about 6 years (not including each years cut).   You also need sufficient storage as you wont believe the amount of wood you will go through if you are using it for serious heating.

xmarksthespot

Do you already have the woodburner? - if not then to help with a comparison you'd need to factor in the cost of its purchase and installation and the length of time you intend to be in the property to weigh up return on investment and how that compares with other heating methods.

Is the woodburner standalone or connected to your heating/hot water?

Tell us more about the property you intend to heat.

I have a woodburner that heats one sitting room in an older house, with the heat filtering into the hallway and upstairs to improve air temperature a little. I don't (have to) pay for wood. It suits on occasion to use it, but I have to rely on gas-fired central heating to heat the other rooms. I see the woodburner as an alternative to use on occasion as its cosy/different, but don't see it as a cost-saver given I still need gas and elec. 

Would probably be more inclined to consider solar if I was looking for an alternative, but even then I feel it wouldn't be worth the return on investment unless circumstances change.

FreeBear

ariarnia said: (remember a ton builders bag is often only about half a ton of weight because the volume of wood is less than something like sand).

You are unlikely to get even half a tonne in a bulk bag - More like 200-250Kg assuming the logs are neatly packed.

This file may be of interest if you wish to compare the amount of heat produced by burning coal, wood (kiln dried, seasoned and wet) - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/867429/burning-wood-consult-bsria-report1.pdf

mark_cycling00

this query comes up quite often. 
As mentioned above, there is **lots** to consider including the burner, installation, chimney works, kindling (don't go burning chemical soaked magazines or cardboard every day) wood storage, the increasing price of wood as everyone out there buys a log burner, annual chimney cleaning etc. Probably getting close to the cost of roof solar installation!

In urban areas you might get neighbours complaining and trying to report you to the authorities.

And the effort... carrying in logs, spending 20-30 mins every day getting it going, cleaning up, dealing with all the ashes....

if you save say £500 annually, how does that compare to dividends / 2yr fixed interest on the total cost?

FreeBear

mark_cycling00 said: As mentioned above, there is **lots** to consider including the burner, installation, chimney works, kindling (don't go burning chemical soaked magazines or cardboard every day) wood storage, the increasing price of wood as everyone out there buys a log burner, annual chimney cleaning etc. Probably getting close to the cost of roof solar installation!

Stove - £500 and up (have seen £32K on some) - A decent one will more likely be £750 to £1500

Installation - £2K

Shed - £1K - Do not underestimate just how much wood you'd get through each winter.

Tools - Chainsaw, log splitter, axe - £500

Solar panels - £4-6K... Unlike a stove, it will score you 10 points on an EPC and could well push you from a C rating up to a B. Makes the property a bit more attractive to (some) buyers when you come to sell.

dunstonh

And the effort... carrying in logs, spending 20-30 mins every day getting it going, cleaning up, dealing with all the ashes....

Effort is important to note.

I have spent 6 hours in the last two weeks with a chainsaw cutting wood up.   I find it quite enjoyable and its good exercise.  However, the oil for the chainsaw and sharpening the blades need to be considered.  It's also quite messy with the shavings (I do it on a tarpaulin and tip it into the green bin.   You then have to stack it, and when you want it in the house, you need to carry it into the house.   We have to bring in a load every day (about twelve to fifteen logs of 12-18inch each).   We use our own kindling from fallen minor branches.

You can buy kindling and pre-cut wood but it costs more.   

We normally burn oak and ash.   Both of these do not generate much in the way of ash if well seasoned.   We can go many weeks without needing to clear the burner.    However, we are burning willow and pine at the moment and getting more ash than normal.  So, we need to clean out the burner once a week.   That doesn't take long and with care, its not that messy but it can be if you are not careful.   We are burning willow and pine currentlyt as they don't generate as much heat but you don't need as much at the moment and the wood is our own.  So, no point wasting it.  The oak and ash is better for the real cold months.

In urban areas you might get neighbours complaining and trying to report you to the authorities.

Anyone can light a fire.   However, not as many can run a burner efficiently.   Someone burning seasoned/dry kilned wood with the correct airflow will generate little or no smell with little or no particulate pollution.

Too many people either burn with too much air or try to have as little air as possible.  Both can lead to more unpleasant smells and greater particulates.  Some will burn wood that is totally unsuitable.      When we replaced the waterboarding on our stable block, someone took the old weatherboarding away to burn.  Those boards were probably 40 years old and had creosote on them.   He told us they really stunk when burning.  They wouldn't have generated much heat and the pollution and stench would have been awful for his neighbours.  But it was free in his eyes.

If you drive along a road and see smoke bellowing out of a chimney, then that is a burn not running efficiently.  If you see a smoke wisp only then, that is efficient.

ariarnia

FreeBear said:

Solar panels - £4-6K... Unlike a stove, it will score you 10 points on an EPC and could well push you from a C rating up to a B. Makes the property a bit more attractive to (some) buyers when you come to sell.

we looked at some recent quotes and it was closer to £8k for a 'basic' installation (no or minimal roof work). guy said the demand was crazy at the moment so prices had jumped. something we might look into but probably not for a couple of years till things have maybe settled a bit.  

FreeBear

dunstonh said:

And the effort... carrying in logs, spending 20-30 mins every day getting it going, cleaning up, dealing with all the ashes....

I have spent 6 hours in the last two weeks with a chainsaw cutting wood up.   I find it quite enjoyable and its good exercise.  However, the oil for the chainsaw and sharpening the blades need to be considered.  It's also quite messy with the shavings (I do it on a tarpaulin and tip it into the green bin.

The debris from cutting can go on the garden as a mulch, or spread out in the wood shed to dry - It won't take long, and can then be used as a base layer when lighting the fire.