Water Butts….waste of money?

tik33

Well, I'm very excited with my newbuild (let's hope that the planners see it that way!). I hear what you say about filtering water - what do you think about rainwater for showers/washing machines etc?

Problem with all this Solar and PV stuff is that it takes up so much room... In an inner london location, space is at a premium - no loft space in the place I want to build. That's why condensing boilers are attractive - (though I'm dreading having to deal with the gas company) - also have been exploring heat pumps (ground source and air source) still to be convinced. My biggest problem with all of these systems is that they have such a long payback period and that kind of locks me in... Also, I worry that you buy into the kit and then it becomes obsolete or people don't know how to service them - especially serious kit like PV panels.

I just love the idea of being very self sufficient - just can't quite justify the amount of money it will all take - I think I'll end up going for some of it and waiting until other bits reduce in price (those PV panels have got to come down in price, don't you think?)

ravenlighte

Hi, just thought I would mention...the government has some grants available for those interested in solar panels, PV and such like. They will reimburse up to 50% (last I heard) of your costs, but you have to use their registered list of companies.


See the Energy Saving Trust for information and to do a grants search:
http://www.est.org.uk/myhome/generating/types/solarpv/

tik33

You're absolutely right about the grants and they've been quite successful. However, I would say a couple of things that I have picked up during my research:

1. the scheme is ending soon and the next scheme is not scheduled to start giving grants until summer 2006. The next round of funding is allegedly going to be less generous

2. One PV seller on their website wasn't an approved distributor/retailer and didn't have the grants applicable but gave an interesting bit of spin on the grants system. They said (and I don't have enough knowledge to know whether this is true or not), that to get their kit tested would cost so much that the final price of the equipment with the grant would end up costing more than it does at the moment! Who knows whether this is right or not?

julieanne_3

Water authorities charge for the surface water that drains off your property so surely a water but would more than pay for itself in this way?

gromituk

ravenlighte wrote:

H They will reimburse up to 50% (last I heard) of your costs, but you have to use their registered list of companies.

Definitely worth mentioning, but of course using their registered list can bump up the cost considerably, and precludes DIY which saves thousands. I remember reading one company's diatribe about it being so expensive to get accreditation that they didn't bother. I don't know how significant that is.

gromituk

julieanne wrote:

Water authorities charge for the surface water that drains off your property so surely a water but would more than pay for itself in this way?

Unfortunately, I think (at least with my water company) that they will only reimburse sewerage charges if you can prove that none of your surface water goes down their drains, and then the amount saved is pretty minimal. I reckoned that trying to convince them that saving some of my surface water and some of next door's wouldn't compute!

gromituk

tik33 wrote:

I hear what you say about filtering water - what do you think about rainwater for showers/washing machines etc?

Well I presume there are two aspects to filtering water - one is to remove stuff which would block valves and stain clothes, and the other to remove bacteria and other things considered harmful to people. I would have thought some level of filtering would be needed for these applications. For filling up toilets I'm relying on any gunk settling out in the reservoir and the cistern in the loft. I do have some coarse filters: stainless steel scouring pads on brass mesh in rainwater heads (hoppers) on the way from the gutters to the reservoir. And I've fitted leaf guards to the gutters, too.

Weymouth_Man

black-saturn wrote:

I don't know where you are based but some water companies will provide a water butt for free. Contact your local water authority and ask.

If you have any food factories round your way worth a try, ask, if they use 200L drums they always cause a problem when empty, i'm sure you could have one free!!!

The chemicals are sold on a one trip basis, chemical company's do not want these back, too expensive to recycle. :cool:

Xbigman

When I looked at putting in a downpipe and big storage tank (1120 litre) I considered a soak in the front garden too, to get the discount. But 'any' use of roof water that goes into the sewage system cancels the discount.

For wessex water the sewerage cost per m3 is higher than the cost of incoming water. By using rainwater to flush the toilet I am putting more into sewage than I get in. How long before some charges get attached to this. I predict that any permanent rainwater recycling system will eventually incur charges.

Now to costs.
If I could replace all toilet flushings each year, and if I use 4 flushes per day, 5 ltr per flush, I save 7300 ltr per year. Thats £14.
If I use 30 ltr per day to water the garden, for 100 days of the year. 3000 ltr is £6.

So max savings available so far is £20. Money spent so far (water butt) is £32. But one water butt won't supply that amount of water. As any house roof system would cost £100+ I I'd be looking at a 5 year repayment timescale. Assuming my figures hold up.

Talking of figures. I am bringing water into the toilet using a bucket and pouring it straight down. This was ok till I realised my daughter was using the toilet and because there were a few bits of tissue or not 100% clean water in, she was flushing before she p'd and after. Ho hum.
I've now realised I need to put the water into the cistern and then flush, to get the swirl effect and completely clear the dirty water. So current strategy; I've turned the isolator on the cistern inflow so it only dribbles water. When I flush I poor water into the cistern to refill it straight after flushing, by hand. Cost effective and I get excercise carrying buckets of water around.
Regards



X

potbelly

Just a thought, why are people trying to pump water back up to their lofts? Install a secondary water tank in the loft, as close as possible to the outside guttering downpipe, then fit the downpipe diverter up near the guttering, with a pipe through to this tank. The only extra equipment required is an overflow pipe from the tank back to the downpipe. It's a bit fiddly but doesn't require any pumps, electric, carrying buckets ...

Just don't install TOO big a tank or you might get an unexpected loft conversion!!!

After that, route the water to the toilets as described in earlier posts, but make sure it can't contaminate the mains supply. I also run a pipe to an 'outside' tap for washing the car, watering the garden etc.

And of course you could still have a water butt at ground level to catch any water that overflows from the roof tank.