Forced Redundancy in Academia - Do I have a Legal Case?

Undervalued

jon81uk said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

Andy_L said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

macman said:

What do you mean by teaching 'several hours a week'? Is this in effect a zero hours contract? if not, what are your minmum contracted hours?
What advice have you sought from your trade union on this situation?
I would not do anything though until you have crossed the exact two year watershed, because until that point redundancy simply does not apply: you can be dismissed without reason just by giving you your contractual notice, or payment in lieu.

I am not sure if its zero hours or not. I think it is. By "several hours a week" I mean during term time (early Oct - early June) I was delivering several hours worth of lectures weekly. Outside those months and during Xmas / Easter period, I was only paid for ad hoc duties (such as exam marking).

I  wrote about my experience with trade union back in my first post. My 2 colleagues along with me had discussions with them, and in turn they put pressure on HR to make amends. This resulted in these 2 colleagues getting compensation. For me - nothing because it's been under 2 years.

I will close the 2 year threshold officially next week.

You need to find out. If it is they can just offer you zero hours to work and there's nothing you can do about it

That they made "some effort last month (August) on their part to redeploy me in another department " suggests that you aren't on a ZHC (or that they don't know what they are going)

Hi all; I've gone quiet as I was waiting to cross the 2 year threshold. Now I have offically crossed it. My work email and my personal "hub" containing details of my pay slips, etc is still active; it still even says that I am officially an Associate Lecturer in the Department!

Two questions here:

1. How do I find out if I am on zero hours or not exactly? What would be the wording in the contract that specifies it's zero hours?

2. Now that I crossed 2 year threshold, do I have a legal case? 

Your contract should explicitly state the minimum hours and similar.
Mine clearly states Hours of work: 35 per week. Also clearly states its an indefinate contract.

If the contract didn't give you all that information you should have raised it when you got the contract.

Many academic contracts are very "woolly" about the number of hours. Certainly the last one I had with a very large and traditional university said something like "as a guide"! It was quite a low number but, realistically, anybody serious about their career was going to do a lot more hours than that. In no way was it an attempt to be a zero hour contract.

Our non fixed term contracts said something like "until the retirement age, subject to a probationary period".

jon81uk

Undervalued said:

jon81uk said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

Andy_L said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

macman said:

What do you mean by teaching 'several hours a week'? Is this in effect a zero hours contract? if not, what are your minmum contracted hours?
What advice have you sought from your trade union on this situation?
I would not do anything though until you have crossed the exact two year watershed, because until that point redundancy simply does not apply: you can be dismissed without reason just by giving you your contractual notice, or payment in lieu.

I am not sure if its zero hours or not. I think it is. By "several hours a week" I mean during term time (early Oct - early June) I was delivering several hours worth of lectures weekly. Outside those months and during Xmas / Easter period, I was only paid for ad hoc duties (such as exam marking).

I  wrote about my experience with trade union back in my first post. My 2 colleagues along with me had discussions with them, and in turn they put pressure on HR to make amends. This resulted in these 2 colleagues getting compensation. For me - nothing because it's been under 2 years.

I will close the 2 year threshold officially next week.

You need to find out. If it is they can just offer you zero hours to work and there's nothing you can do about it

That they made "some effort last month (August) on their part to redeploy me in another department " suggests that you aren't on a ZHC (or that they don't know what they are going)

Hi all; I've gone quiet as I was waiting to cross the 2 year threshold. Now I have offically crossed it. My work email and my personal "hub" containing details of my pay slips, etc is still active; it still even says that I am officially an Associate Lecturer in the Department!

Two questions here:

1. How do I find out if I am on zero hours or not exactly? What would be the wording in the contract that specifies it's zero hours?

2. Now that I crossed 2 year threshold, do I have a legal case? 

Your contract should explicitly state the minimum hours and similar.
Mine clearly states Hours of work: 35 per week. Also clearly states its an indefinate contract.

If the contract didn't give you all that information you should have raised it when you got the contract.

Many academic contracts are very "woolly" about the number of hours. Certainly the last one I had with a very large and traditional university said something like "as a guide"! It was quite a low number but, realistically, anybody serious about their career was going to do a lot more hours than that. In no way was it an attempt to be a zero hour contract.

Our non fixed term contracts said something like "until the retirement age, subject to a probationary period".

But the fact there is a number then shows you are going to be paid for that many hours, so in relation to the OP it would give some information on what they should be being offered. If the contract states 5 hours a week then they get that pay until the end date.

mjm3346

"2. Now that I crossed 2 year threshold, do I have a legal case?"

You previously seemed to have been working under the assumption that you were "terminated" some while ago and were involved in a "process" - if you are not being paid and haven't been for months then still having access to some systems doesn't make you employed but assuming it does then there isn't normally much money for such a short period of employment.

Dynamic_Edge

jon81uk said:

Undervalued said:

jon81uk said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

Andy_L said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

macman said:

What do you mean by teaching 'several hours a week'? Is this in effect a zero hours contract? if not, what are your minmum contracted hours?
What advice have you sought from your trade union on this situation?
I would not do anything though until you have crossed the exact two year watershed, because until that point redundancy simply does not apply: you can be dismissed without reason just by giving you your contractual notice, or payment in lieu.

I am not sure if its zero hours or not. I think it is. By "several hours a week" I mean during term time (early Oct - early June) I was delivering several hours worth of lectures weekly. Outside those months and during Xmas / Easter period, I was only paid for ad hoc duties (such as exam marking).

I  wrote about my experience with trade union back in my first post. My 2 colleagues along with me had discussions with them, and in turn they put pressure on HR to make amends. This resulted in these 2 colleagues getting compensation. For me - nothing because it's been under 2 years.

I will close the 2 year threshold officially next week.

You need to find out. If it is they can just offer you zero hours to work and there's nothing you can do about it

That they made "some effort last month (August) on their part to redeploy me in another department " suggests that you aren't on a ZHC (or that they don't know what they are going)

Hi all; I've gone quiet as I was waiting to cross the 2 year threshold. Now I have offically crossed it. My work email and my personal "hub" containing details of my pay slips, etc is still active; it still even says that I am officially an Associate Lecturer in the Department!

Two questions here:

1. How do I find out if I am on zero hours or not exactly? What would be the wording in the contract that specifies it's zero hours?

2. Now that I crossed 2 year threshold, do I have a legal case? 

Your contract should explicitly state the minimum hours and similar.
Mine clearly states Hours of work: 35 per week. Also clearly states its an indefinate contract.

If the contract didn't give you all that information you should have raised it when you got the contract.

Many academic contracts are very "woolly" about the number of hours. Certainly the last one I had with a very large and traditional university said something like "as a guide"! It was quite a low number but, realistically, anybody serious about their career was going to do a lot more hours than that. In no way was it an attempt to be a zero hour contract.

Our non fixed term contracts said something like "until the retirement age, subject to a probationary period".

But the fact there is a number then shows you are going to be paid for that many hours, so in relation to the OP it would give some information on what they should be being offered. If the contract states 5 hours a week then they get that pay until the end date.

Ok, so my contract states the "number of contracted hours" per module taught: that is, the total number of hours I will be teaching for each academic term / year. And then throughout the academic year, I could also claim for additional hours for ad hoc duties like end of year exam marking.

Dynamic_Edge

I've been recommended by someone to get in touch with acas.org.uk. I spoke to them earlier, and they said I need to send my employer an email to clarify if I am actually still employed by them / do they have any work for me, or when my employment was ended. They also said that according to law I am entitled to one week's notice pay, if I worked for at least a year.

So I sent to my university an email (to some member of HR and senior members of the department) asking two questions:

1. Do you still have any work for me?
2. If not, when does / did my employment period end?

In my email, I also stated that by law I am entitled to a one week's notice pay, as the advisor said, and I gave them until Tues 11 October to respond.

Will see what they say. What is strange is that the members of the university union and HR have not responded to my previous 2 emails I sent weeks ago. It seems they have all decided to cleanse their hands of me and hope I go away quietly.

General_Grant

Dynamic_Edge said:

I've been recommended by someone to get in touch with acas.org.uk. I spoke to them earlier, and they said I need to send my employer an email to clarify if I am actually still employed by them / do they have any work for me, or when my employment was ended. They also said that according to law I am entitled to one week's notice pay, if I worked for at least a year.

So I sent to my university an email (to some member of HR and senior members of the department) asking two questions:

1. Do you still have any work for me?
2. If not, when does / did my employment period end?

In my email, I also stated that by law I am entitled to a one week's notice pay, as the advisor said, and I gave them until Tues 11 October to respond.

Will see what they say. What is strange is that the members of the university union and HR have not responded to my previous 2 emails I sent weeks ago. It seems they have all decided to cleanse their hands of me and hope I go away quietly.

I would have expected ACAS telephone people to know that employees are entitled to one week's paid notice if they have been employed for a month (doesn't have to be twelve!) but that it isn't a week's pay in addition to what is paid time (whether they actually said it was paid in addition isn't clear).

Dynamic_Edge

General_Grant said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

I've been recommended by someone to get in touch with acas.org.uk. I spoke to them earlier, and they said I need to send my employer an email to clarify if I am actually still employed by them / do they have any work for me, or when my employment was ended. They also said that according to law I am entitled to one week's notice pay, if I worked for at least a year.

So I sent to my university an email (to some member of HR and senior members of the department) asking two questions:

1. Do you still have any work for me?
2. If not, when does / did my employment period end?

In my email, I also stated that by law I am entitled to a one week's notice pay, as the advisor said, and I gave them until Tues 11 October to respond.

Will see what they say. What is strange is that the members of the university union and HR have not responded to my previous 2 emails I sent weeks ago. It seems they have all decided to cleanse their hands of me and hope I go away quietly.

I would have expected ACAS telephone people to know that employees are entitled to one week's paid notice if they have been employed for a month (doesn't have to be twelve!) but that it isn't a week's pay in addition to what is paid time (whether they actually said it was paid in addition isn't clear).

I don't understand, what  does it mean as you say being entitled to one's week paid notice but it not being a week's pay in addition?

Andy_L

Dynamic_Edge said:

General_Grant said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

I've been recommended by someone to get in touch with acas.org.uk. I spoke to them earlier, and they said I need to send my employer an email to clarify if I am actually still employed by them / do they have any work for me, or when my employment was ended. They also said that according to law I am entitled to one week's notice pay, if I worked for at least a year.

So I sent to my university an email (to some member of HR and senior members of the department) asking two questions:

1. Do you still have any work for me?
2. If not, when does / did my employment period end?

In my email, I also stated that by law I am entitled to a one week's notice pay, as the advisor said, and I gave them until Tues 11 October to respond.

Will see what they say. What is strange is that the members of the university union and HR have not responded to my previous 2 emails I sent weeks ago. It seems they have all decided to cleanse their hands of me and hope I go away quietly.

I would have expected ACAS telephone people to know that employees are entitled to one week's paid notice if they have been employed for a month (doesn't have to be twelve!) but that it isn't a week's pay in addition to what is paid time (whether they actually said it was paid in addition isn't clear).

I don't understand, what  does it mean as you say being entitled to one's week paid notice but it not being a week's pay in addition?

You are entitled to a weeks notice, for which you get paid. You aren't entitled to a weeks notice and then an extra redundancy payment of 1 weeks pay

Dynamic_Edge

It will be the deadline tomorrow. Nobody has responded yet - neither the head of department, nor HR, no union representatives. This is shocking. I just remembered something worrying - that I could be overpaying tax for the last 3 months; since HMRC hasn't been officially notified, I was probably  paying extra tax for non-existent wages!

jon81uk

Dynamic_Edge said:

It will be the deadline tomorrow. Nobody has responded yet - neither the head of department, nor HR, no union representatives. This is shocking. I just remembered something worrying - that I could be overpaying tax for the last 3 months; since HMRC hasn't been officially notified, I was probably  paying extra tax for non-existent wages!

If you weren't getting paid, how could you be taxed on that pay?