Forced Redundancy in Academia - Do I have a Legal Case?

Undervalued

jon81uk said:

Undervalued said:

jon81uk said:

You stated it was a "sort of rolling contract" but did you contract state you were employed indefinitely or did it have a fixed end date.
If the contract end date was less than two years from when you started then I don't see why you would expect anything.

If the OP is still employed and the two year point has been crossed (which is how I read the post) then he is entitled to consultation and at least statutory redundancy.

But they would only be currently employed if on an indefinite contract?

Whereas if they were employed only to teach for 2020-21 and then again for 2021-22 I would expect there to be an end date each time.

Would there not also need to be a clear break of at least a week for the employment not to be continuous? 

Dynamic_Edge

They issued a fixed term contract when I started for 20-21; essentially I was receiving weekly salary for contracted hours during term time (October - May) and ad-hoc salary over the summer months for duties like re-sit exam marking. When 21-22 came, they simply continued my positions; they didn't even bother sending me a new contract (as they had some software / other issues I think). S0 my position simply rolled over from 20-21. I had a look over the contract issued for 20-21, and although it says fixed term, there is no end date given anywhere. It also has a 18 month probation period clause.

I believe the notice period in the contract is the most relevant clause for my situation: I quote:

"NOTICE PERIOD AND TERMINATION OF EMPLOYMENT
With the exception of the probationary period (see Section 8.) and cases warranting summary dismissal or cases where student enrolment is not met, this contract may be terminated by either party by the giving of the statutory minimum or four weeks' notice in writing, which-ever is greater.

This contract may also be terminated with immediate effect if the level of student enrolment on this module fails to reach student enrolment targets sufficient for business needs. In that scenario the module will not be viable and will be cancelled and this contract will terminate with immediate effect rendering it null and void. Where recourse to the College's Variation in Hours Policy (link to college webpage) is not sufficient and termination of the module results in a redundancy situation, you will be duly informed under the Redundancy Policy guidelines and the appropriate procedure followed.

The College reserves the right to pay you in lieu of notice at its sole discretion."

So given that they made me redundant due to low student intake, the above clause applies. They did not duly inform under the redundancy policy guidelines and they did not follow appropriate procedures.

As I wrote above, their failure to follow proper procedures was the crux of the other 2 employees appeal, and the college eventually made effort to compensate them for this failure. However, nothing happened in my case (apart form half hearted attempts to consult other departments to try to find me a similar position). 

Your thoughts on this?

Dynamic_Edge

jon81uk said:

Undervalued said:

jon81uk said:

You stated it was a "sort of rolling contract" but did you contract state you were employed indefinitely or did it have a fixed end date.
If the contract end date was less than two years from when you started then I don't see why you would expect anything.

If the OP is still employed and the two year point has been crossed (which is how I read the post) then he is entitled to consultation and at least statutory redundancy.

But they would only be currently employed if on an indefinite contract?

Whereas if they were employed only to teach for 2020-21 and then again for 2021-22 I would expect there to be an end date each time.

As my post above, it was fixed term contract given initially for 20-21 but the end date wasn't actually stated! So it seems that implicitly that it would automatically roll over for next year.

Andy_L

Dynamic_Edge said:

As I wrote above, their failure to follow proper procedures was the crux of the other 2 employees appeal, and the college eventually made effort to compensate them for this failure. However, nothing happened in my case (apart form half hearted attempts to consult other departments to try to find me a similar position). 

Your thoughts on this?

you can take them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal but, because it looks like it was a genuine redundancy situation they just didn't follow the procedure that well, then the compensation you will get above stat redundancy is minimal

macman

What do you mean by teaching 'several hours a week'? Is this in effect a zero hours contract? if not, what are your minmum contracted hours?
What advice have you sought from your trade union on this situation?
I would not do anything though until you have crossed the exact two year watershed, because until that point redundancy simply does not apply: you can be dismissed without reason just by giving you your contractual notice, or payment in lieu.

Dynamic_Edge

macman said:

What do you mean by teaching 'several hours a week'? Is this in effect a zero hours contract? if not, what are your minmum contracted hours?
What advice have you sought from your trade union on this situation?
I would not do anything though until you have crossed the exact two year watershed, because until that point redundancy simply does not apply: you can be dismissed without reason just by giving you your contractual notice, or payment in lieu.

I am not sure if its zero hours or not. I think it is. By "several hours a week" I mean during term time (early Oct - early June) I was delivering several hours worth of lectures weekly. Outside those months and during Xmas / Easter period, I was only paid for ad hoc duties (such as exam marking).

I  wrote about my experience with trade union back in my first post. My 2 colleagues along with me had discussions with them, and in turn they put pressure on HR to make amends. This resulted in these 2 colleagues getting compensation. For me - nothing because it's been under 2 years.

I will close the 2 year threshold officially next week.

Andy_L

Dynamic_Edge said:

macman said:

What do you mean by teaching 'several hours a week'? Is this in effect a zero hours contract? if not, what are your minmum contracted hours?
What advice have you sought from your trade union on this situation?
I would not do anything though until you have crossed the exact two year watershed, because until that point redundancy simply does not apply: you can be dismissed without reason just by giving you your contractual notice, or payment in lieu.

I am not sure if its zero hours or not. I think it is. By "several hours a week" I mean during term time (early Oct - early June) I was delivering several hours worth of lectures weekly. Outside those months and during Xmas / Easter period, I was only paid for ad hoc duties (such as exam marking).

I  wrote about my experience with trade union back in my first post. My 2 colleagues along with me had discussions with them, and in turn they put pressure on HR to make amends. This resulted in these 2 colleagues getting compensation. For me - nothing because it's been under 2 years.

I will close the 2 year threshold officially next week.

You need to find out. If it is they can just offer you zero hours to work and there's nothing you can do about it

That they made "some effort last month (August) on their part to redeploy me in another department " suggests that you aren't on a ZHC (or that they don't know what they are going)

Dynamic_Edge

Andy_L said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

macman said:

What do you mean by teaching 'several hours a week'? Is this in effect a zero hours contract? if not, what are your minmum contracted hours?
What advice have you sought from your trade union on this situation?
I would not do anything though until you have crossed the exact two year watershed, because until that point redundancy simply does not apply: you can be dismissed without reason just by giving you your contractual notice, or payment in lieu.

I am not sure if its zero hours or not. I think it is. By "several hours a week" I mean during term time (early Oct - early June) I was delivering several hours worth of lectures weekly. Outside those months and during Xmas / Easter period, I was only paid for ad hoc duties (such as exam marking).

I  wrote about my experience with trade union back in my first post. My 2 colleagues along with me had discussions with them, and in turn they put pressure on HR to make amends. This resulted in these 2 colleagues getting compensation. For me - nothing because it's been under 2 years.

I will close the 2 year threshold officially next week.

You need to find out. If it is they can just offer you zero hours to work and there's nothing you can do about it

That they made "some effort last month (August) on their part to redeploy me in another department " suggests that you aren't on a ZHC (or that they don't know what they are going)

Hi all; I've gone quiet as I was waiting to cross the 2 year threshold. Now I have offically crossed it. My work email and my personal "hub" containing details of my pay slips, etc is still active; it still even says that I am officially an Associate Lecturer in the Department!

Two questions here:

1. How do I find out if I am on zero hours or not exactly? What would be the wording in the contract that specifies it's zero hours?

2. Now that I crossed 2 year threshold, do I have a legal case? 

adindas

Dynamic_Edge said:

Andy_L said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

macman said:

What do you mean by teaching 'several hours a week'? Is this in effect a zero hours contract? if not, what are your minmum contracted hours?
What advice have you sought from your trade union on this situation?
I would not do anything though until you have crossed the exact two year watershed, because until that point redundancy simply does not apply: you can be dismissed without reason just by giving you your contractual notice, or payment in lieu.

I am not sure if its zero hours or not. I think it is. By "several hours a week" I mean during term time (early Oct - early June) I was delivering several hours worth of lectures weekly. Outside those months and during Xmas / Easter period, I was only paid for ad hoc duties (such as exam marking).

I  wrote about my experience with trade union back in my first post. My 2 colleagues along with me had discussions with them, and in turn they put pressure on HR to make amends. This resulted in these 2 colleagues getting compensation. For me - nothing because it's been under 2 years.

I will close the 2 year threshold officially next week.

You need to find out. If it is they can just offer you zero hours to work and there's nothing you can do about it

That they made "some effort last month (August) on their part to redeploy me in another department " suggests that you aren't on a ZHC (or that they don't know what they are going)

Hi all; I've gone quiet as I was waiting to cross the 2 year threshold. Now I have offically crossed it. My work email and my personal "hub" containing details of my pay slips, etc is still active; it still even says that I am officially an Associate Lecturer in the Department!

Two questions here:

1. How do I find out if I am on zero hours or not exactly? What would be the wording in the contract that specifies it's zero hours?

2. Now that I crossed 2 year threshold, do I have a legal case? 

You have nothing to lose. Do not give up without a fight. You have done the right thing to consult with trade union. Also as other people say, check it with no win no fee employment lawyer.

Wish you all the best .....

jon81uk

Dynamic_Edge said:

Andy_L said:

Dynamic_Edge said:

macman said:

What do you mean by teaching 'several hours a week'? Is this in effect a zero hours contract? if not, what are your minmum contracted hours?
What advice have you sought from your trade union on this situation?
I would not do anything though until you have crossed the exact two year watershed, because until that point redundancy simply does not apply: you can be dismissed without reason just by giving you your contractual notice, or payment in lieu.

I am not sure if its zero hours or not. I think it is. By "several hours a week" I mean during term time (early Oct - early June) I was delivering several hours worth of lectures weekly. Outside those months and during Xmas / Easter period, I was only paid for ad hoc duties (such as exam marking).

I  wrote about my experience with trade union back in my first post. My 2 colleagues along with me had discussions with them, and in turn they put pressure on HR to make amends. This resulted in these 2 colleagues getting compensation. For me - nothing because it's been under 2 years.

I will close the 2 year threshold officially next week.

You need to find out. If it is they can just offer you zero hours to work and there's nothing you can do about it

That they made "some effort last month (August) on their part to redeploy me in another department " suggests that you aren't on a ZHC (or that they don't know what they are going)

Hi all; I've gone quiet as I was waiting to cross the 2 year threshold. Now I have offically crossed it. My work email and my personal "hub" containing details of my pay slips, etc is still active; it still even says that I am officially an Associate Lecturer in the Department!

Two questions here:

1. How do I find out if I am on zero hours or not exactly? What would be the wording in the contract that specifies it's zero hours?

2. Now that I crossed 2 year threshold, do I have a legal case? 

Your contract should explicitly state the minimum hours and similar.
Mine clearly states Hours of work: 35 per week. Also clearly states its an indefinate contract.

If the contract didn't give you all that information you should have raised it when you got the contract.