FIT Deemed to Export or Opt Out

jewelleryjac

QurizB - The current FIT rate we get per kWh of energy we export/sell is 60p. In 2017 we got 50p. Our annual income from selling back to the grid is around £1200-£1500 a year. Our panels were installed in 2011 (when they were VERY expensive) but we benefit from an index linked pay rate which has increased every year. I’m not sure where you get 4p from? I presume that’s the fixed rate for those who have more recently installed panels? Or maybe I’m missing something? 

mickyduck55

jewelleryjac said:

QurizB - The current FIT rate we get per kWh of energy we export/sell is 60p. In 2017 we got 50p. Our annual income from selling back to the grid is around £1200-£1500 a year. Our panels were installed in 2011 (when they were VERY expensive) but we benefit from an index linked pay rate which has increased every year. I’m not sure where you get 4p from? I presume that’s the fixed rate for those who have more recently installed panels? Or maybe I’m missing something? 

Yes you are missing something.. the FIT is consists of two payments,

1. As you say above about 60p ATM paid on EVERY kWh generated even if you use the power yourself
2. Export.. this is circa 4p and if you are on Deemed export then you will get 4p for 50 % of your generation, if on metered export you will get 4p on every kWh EXPORTED.

As an aside I installed in 2011... panels were very expensive then but recent quotes on this forum are getting close to those numbers again

zeupater

jewelleryjac said:

Zeupater, I don’t claim to be very good with numbers! All I know is that the difference in numbers totals 4675 kWh. I imagine your calculation is more accurate than mine as you seem to be clued up (your calculations are gobbledegook to me!). I made a simple calculation based on our FIT rate of between 50p and 60p per kWt (between 2017 and today) and applied that to the difference. I’m sure it’s highly inaccurate 🤷‍♀️

Anyway, after writing a strongly-worded email to them this morning, Scottish Power have been in touch to apologise for the letter we received saying it contains information which should not have been applied to us. Lots still to be followed up on…and we are somewhat astounded by the speed of their reply. Makes us suspicious!! 

Hi

As per the past few posts, there are a number of issues at play.

Firstly, your FiT payment currently consists of the 50-60p/kWh you mention and this is paid from the reading you supply from your TGM (total generation meter) on a quarterly basis ... this is paid on generation whether you consume the electricity yourself or export it. The FiT scheme pays an additional sum (currently 4.25p/kWh) for the electricity you export, however, because of the lack of supply meters with the ability to export and the costs to the local DNOs (the energy supply infrastructure companies responsible for the meters), the scheme had/has the provision to 'deem' the percentage of generation exported to be 50% of that made on the TGM quarterly submissions ... this was a required selection on the Scottish Power paperwork when originally applying for access to the FiT scheme through them (either stating you wanted the 50% deemed export, or not) ... if you check the FiT calculation/payment documentation you receive quarterly from SP you'll see the two separate figures detailed, but it's only the lower one that represents the amount that would be affected by actual metering as opposed to deeming 50%.

Onto ... 'the difference in numbers totals 4675 kWh' ... not all smart meters have the ability to measure excess generation exports and simply measure energy flowing in one direction, however, yours seems to be one that does as it seems to have two registers. When the meter was fitted in 2017, the installer should have noted the opening reading for both registers ... if the meter was new the registers would have only included energy flow for calibration/test purposes, so likely not zero, but close to it. The issue here is that the export register shows the cumulative export since fitting and the import reading shows the cumulative energy imported & purchased from the supplier(s) over the same period ... these are two separate entities, effectively measuring purchases & potential sales ... if you were choose to move away from the 50% deemed export to an actual meter reading, the reading of the smart-meter's export register at the point of changeover will act as your new (effectively zeroed) opening microgeneration figure for future payments only as you've already received payment for exports to that date on a 'deemed' basis ... 

On the basis of the above & what others have posted, I'd like to think that the relevance of the statement ....  " I made a simple calculation based on our FIT rate of between 50p and 60p per kWt (between 2017 and today) and applied that to the difference. I’m sure it’s highly inaccurate" ... would be open to refection & reconsideration ...

HTH - Z

jewelleryjac

Thanks Zeupater for that very thorough explanation. I’m still somewhat flumoxed. Are you saying then, given we have the these two clear readings with a significant discrepancy, that it wouldn’t be wise to consider moving to metered as it would effectively zero the figures. That being the case, what happens to the 4675 kWh that are presumably unaccounted for? 

ABrass

jewelleryjac said:

Thanks Zeupater for that very thorough explanation. I’m still somewhat flumoxed. Are you saying then, given we have the these two clear readings with a significant discrepancy, that it wouldn’t be wise to consider moving to metered as it would effectively zero the figures. That being the case, what happens to the 4675 kWh that are presumably unaccounted for? 

If I understand it right the export component of your fit payments is less than it could/should have been, because you export more than they assume.

But the export rate is actually pretty small. You have already been paid roughly 60p for each kWh you've generated, but you've missed out on another (roughly) 4p each for the 4675kWp you've exported over the deemed export rate.

Which means you've missed out on about £187 over that time. Which is annoying but less dramatic. You'll have a hard time trying to get that back now, although it's clearly worth a try, and you should look at getting on a measured export for the future.

zeupater

jewelleryjac said:

Thanks Zeupater for that very thorough explanation. I’m still somewhat flumoxed. Are you saying then, given we have the these two clear readings with a significant discrepancy, that it wouldn’t be wise to consider moving to metered as it would effectively zero the figures. That being the case, what happens to the 4675 kWh that are presumably unaccounted for? 

Hi

As a number of people have already commented on, your 4675kWh was described as ... "We’ve been asked to do a Cummulative Export reading which is 4675 kWh below the Cummulative Import reading" ... taking both of these reading from the smart-meter registers and finding the difference is irrelevant as they're totally separate entities taken from the smart meter.

I would anticipate that in your dealings with Scottish Power they are under the impression that you wanted to move from FiT scheme deemed export at 50% to actual readings, in which case you will have already received, and will continue to receive, deemed payment up to a particular agreed cut-off date and will start receiving payment based on the automated smart-meter export register reading from that date .... to enable this, from what you've conveyed, the supplier simply looks to be asking for the cumulative reading from the smart-meter's export register to act as an agreed new 'opening balance' from which to base future payments.

Actually, I'm quite surprised that they've only asked for the export reading as it would be more logical for them to have requested the cumulative readings of both the solar PV generation meter (TGM) and the smart-meter's export register reading as they both were at a particular point in time ... this would provide a cumulative closing balance for the deemed export payment and a cumulative opening reading for the actual export payment, thus allowing a seamless change & preventing any payment processing error ...

Regarding the 'zero the figures' question .... no, the zeroing in question is simply an accounting issue ... if the export meter reading was (eg) 5100 at the time of the changeover then the supplier takes this as the opening figure from which to calculate further exports from, essentially becoming the new export zero point for future export payments ... if the smart-meter reading is taken as 5600 at the end of the next quarter, then the FiT export payment would be based on 500kWh (5600-5100), so £21.25 at 4.25p/kWh. 

One consideration you may need to ponder over is whether you are likely to continue to export >50% of your generation, particularly when legislation pushes towards 'cleaner' energy sources (eg electric heat-pumps replacing gas heating).

HTH - Z

zeupater

ABrass said:

[ ... ]

Which means you've missed out on about £187 over that time. Which is annoying but less dramatic. You'll have a hard time trying to get that back now, although it's clearly worth a try, and you should look at getting on a measured export for the future.

Hi

 ... ~£187 deemed at 50%, then adjusted to reflect 30%-40% actual export, say 35% (a difference of 15/50) would be ~£28.05, so even less dramatic ...

HTH - Z

jewelleryjac

zeupater said:

ABrass said:

[ ... ]

Which means you've missed out on about £187 over that time. Which is annoying but less dramatic. You'll have a hard time trying to get that back now, although it's clearly worth a try, and you should look at getting on a measured export for the future.

Hi

 ... ~£187 deemed at 50%, then adjusted to reflect 30%-40% actual export, say 35% (a difference of 15/50) would be ~£28.05, so even less dramatic ...

HTH - Z

So, almost not worth it! Thank you all, I am much clearer on all of this now. 

Also, in answer to your comment about cleaner energy Zeupater, we’ve actually just had an ASHP installed to replace oil and it’s working a treat! Will be interesting to see how this affects the FIT readings/payments. We’ll still be affected by the hike in electricity though. Maybe time to consider storing all that energy we produce for ourselves….but maybe that’s for another chat thread, unless anyone has any thoughts on it? We have 15 panels…

Exiled_Tyke

Also, in answer to your comment about cleaner energy Zeupater, we’ve actually just had an ASHP installed to replace oil and it’s working a treat! Will be interesting to see how this affects the FIT readings/payments. We’ll still be affected by the hike in electricity though. Maybe time to consider storing all that energy we produce for ourselves….but maybe that’s for another chat thread, unless anyone has any thoughts on it? We have 15 panels…

There's lot of debate on this issue on these boards already. At current rates my battery is saving me at least £600 a year.  However when I bought it three years it felt like the right thing to do but unlikely to be financially worthwhile.  How things have changed.......   I commend anyone who takes their chances with any of these expensive investments. Through them lessons are learnt, technology improves, costs come down.   Ultimately you'll have to weigh up the factors that are important to you and come to your own decision.  

Similarly I spent a lot of time and research on ASHPs but came to the conclusion that right now that's not the way to go for me.  But then invested in the battery.  Martyn on the other hand (who I have great respect for) did completely the opposite: shunned the battery and went with ASHPs!

jewelleryjac

Thanks Exiled_Tyke. The switch to an ASHP was a no-brainer for us. We already had a well-insulated modern house with underfloor heating and PV panels. With a £7500 grant plus £2500 interest free loan available (in Scotland), at an installation cost of £15k, we had to go for it. Still getting to grips with it but it seems to have been the right thing to do at exactly the right time. We were fortunate to have access to funds. We are now also considering the possibility of getting a battery but it’s quite a big, nervy step.