shared code airlines passing the buck

lswain4

Can anyone help.  We recently flew to Orlando via Detroit and where delayed 17+ hours on the Detroit - Orlando leg of the flight due to lack of pilot  we booked the flight through virgin airways holidays and all correspondence and flight numbers were through Virgin Atlantic .  we have tried to claim compensation with both.  Delta tell us it's  Virgins responsibility and Virgin tell us it's Delta.  we are going round in circles.  I don't even know who to take the complaint to.  Either Aviation ADR if it's delta or CEDR for Virgin.  Any advice? 

eskbanker

The principle of the UK/EC 261 regulations is that the operating carrier is the one responsible for all redress arising from those, so in this case it's Delta if they actually operated the delayed flight, regardless of codeshare arrangements.

However, trying to extract compensation under UK or EU regulations from a US airline for a domestic US flight is likely to be challenging, although at least they do operate over here so it won't be entirely unfamiliar territory to them - there is a legal precedent quoted here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79391281/#Comment_79391281

bagand96

UK and EU regulations do not apply to a non UK/EU airline operating a flight outside of the UK/EU.

It doesn't matter who you booked with, the rgaultions are clear the operating air carrier are the ones with the responsibility. 

eskbanker

bagand96 said:

UK and EU regulations do not apply to a non UK/EU airline operating a flight outside of the UK/EU.

That was what I'd originally said in the thread linked above, before being pointed in the direction of Q, R and S v United Airlines (Case C-561/20), in which the regulations were adjudged to be applicable to a non-EU airline operating a flight outside the EU - what are your thoughts on the relevance of that case?

bagand96

eskbanker said:

bagand96 said:

UK and EU regulations do not apply to a non UK/EU airline operating a flight outside of the UK/EU.

That was what I'd originally said in the thread linked above, before being pointed in the direction of Q, R and S v United Airlines (Case C-561/20), in which the regulations were adjudged to be applicable to a non-EU airline operating a flight outside the EU - what are your thoughts on the relevance of that case?

My understanding was that it can only apply to a non-UK/EU airline when the journey starts in the EU. I haven't read the details of the case linked but note that their journey did start in the EU in Brussels (even though the actual problem flight was in the US) 

In this case the OP's journey started in th US on a US airline so I'm not sure if its comparable.

That said I could well be wrong, everyone's understanding is only as good as the last court case, and I definitely don't follow them! 

eskbanker

bagand96 said:

In this case the OP's journey started in th US on a US airline so I'm not sure if its comparable.

I don't believe OP's journey started in the US, but implicitly was a journey from the UK via Detroit to Orlando, having booked with Virgin Atlantic Holidays:

lswain4 said:

We recently flew to Orlando via Detroit and where delayed 17+ hours on the Detroit - Orlando leg of the flight due to lack of pilot  we booked the flight through virgin airways holidays and all correspondence and flight numbers were through Virgin Atlantic .

Alan_Bowen

Yes, it looks to me as though it falls within the previously stated United Airlines case but Delta will do everything to avoid paying...

bagand96

eskbanker said:

bagand96 said:

In this case the OP's journey started in th US on a US airline so I'm not sure if its comparable.

I don't believe OP's journey started in the US, but implicitly was a journey from the UK via Detroit to Orlando, having booked with Virgin Atlantic Holidays:

lswain4 said:

We recently flew to Orlando via Detroit and where delayed 17+ hours on the Detroit - Orlando leg of the flight due to lack of pilot  we booked the flight through virgin airways holidays and all correspondence and flight numbers were through Virgin Atlantic .

Of course, I'd mis-read the OP. 

lswain4

the problem we are having is that Delta are claiming that Virgin Atlantic are responsible even though Delta was the carrier.  we believe we have a case because the journey began at Heathrow and was run by virgin Atlantic all under the same booking