Outfoxthemarket charging £400 more than the OFGEM price Cap ?

nurquhar

I am with OFM and on their SVR. This rate has no standing charge, which seems good initially but inevitably they then charge more per unit. I tried to compare the annual bill for my usage with equivalent rate suggested by OFGEM which does have a standing charge. I found the OFGEM rate for April-Oct here : https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/check-if-energy-price-cap-affects-you

For my usage, which is perhaps consider higher than normal as we don't have gas I find that OFM is charging more than £400 more a year than what the cap rate is.

Can this be correct ?

Can I switch to the OFGEM tariff ?

My workings out which include VAT at 5%. The OFGEM rate is also assumed to include VAT

Yearly consumption (kWh)	10,807
OFM kWh Rate (£)	0.335319		Tariff : Fox Standard Elec
OFM Daily Standing  Charge(£)	0
OFGEM kWh Rate (£)	0.28
OFGEM Daily Standing Charge(£)	0.45
Days In year	365
OFM Annual Cost (£)	3,623.79
OFGEM Annual Cost (£)	3,190.21
OFM extra charge above cap rate (£)	433.58

molerat

I assume that unit price includes VAT.

3100 x .335319 = £1039.49 / 1.05 = £989.99 which is in the correct range for DD payment which varies between £969.86 and £1038.84 according to region, all in line with the OFGEM April cap.

The price cap only specifies a maximum nil use cost, the standing charge, and a maximum total cost for 3100 kWh, the cost of the SC and use.  By reducing the SC to 0p they can increase the unit cost to a figure which fits in with the total capped cost for 3100 kWh but massively penalises a high user. You didn't think they were doing you any favours by dropping the SC did you ?

pochase

As long as you use less than the 2900/3100KWh you pay less than the April cap price.

If you use more bad luck. Outfox the Market is using a loophole here. 

MWT

pochase said:

As long as you use less than the 2900/3100KWh you pay less than the April cap price.

If you use more bad luck. Outfox the Market is using a loophole here. 

I'm not even sure it is a real 'loophole' there is a lot of fine detail in the supply license and the Ofgem cap rules which suggest to me at least that this tariff is not compliant.

It is about time someone raised this as a compliant and it should go to Ofgem, not the Ombudsman....

Ofgem doesn't usually take individual cases, but this is affecting all customers who are not on dual fuel, so it should be raised with Ofgem as general complaint...

Would be good to get this potential loophole clarified...

[Deleted User]

It's this clause - as far as I can tell - which basically says that the most you can be charged for X units in a month is the standing charge for a month plus X times the capped unit rate (calculated by cap@3100 minus cap@nil all divided by 3100).

In my reading, this doesn't allow for a greater unit price to be used to account for having a lower standing charge.  Others seems to have read the same clause differently though.

superkoopauk

MWT said:

pochase said:

As long as you use less than the 2900/3100KWh you pay less than the April cap price.

If you use more bad luck. Outfox the Market is using a loophole here. 

I'm not even sure it is a real 'loophole' there is a lot of fine detail in the supply license and the Ofgem cap rules which suggest to me at least that this tariff is not compliant.

It is about time someone raised this as a compliant and it should go to Ofgem, not the Ombudsman....

Ofgem doesn't usually take individual cases, but this is affecting all customers who are not on dual fuel, so it should be raised with Ofgem as general complaint...

Would be good to get this potential loophole clarified...

It is not a loophole it is breaking the rules.  See my post below.  The thing is Ofgem get information from all suppliers on their tariffs so why are they not raising this and fining Outfox?  Completely incompetent!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79443983#Comment_79443983

MWT

[Deleted User] said:

It's this clause - as far as I can tell - which basically says that the most you can be charged for X units in a month is the standing charge for a month plus X times the capped unit rate (calculated by cap@3100 minus cap@nil all divided by 3100).

In my reading, this doesn't allow for a greater unit price to be used to account for having a lower standing charge.  Others seems to have read the same clause differently though.

Agreed, that is the key part of this and why I wrote as I did earlier.

It is also why you don't see the other suppliers trying this sort of approach either.

Ofgem is certainly the right place for this, and no harm in giving Martin a 'head-up' as well, but he is a bit focused elsewhere right now...

It is also possible that OFTM may think twice about this when changing it in line with the new government scheme...

nurquhar

wittynamegoeshere said:

I suspect that their tariff is compliant with the cap formula, if you apply those figures to the typical household consumption then you'll probably find it is within the capped total.

The issue is that you are a heavy user, so will lose out as a result of paying a higher amount per unit.  Conversely, someone with lower than average usage would save with this tariff.

You've chosen the wrong supplier for your needs.  But wait to see what happens this week, it may be that the new price limits will apply to them and make them equal to the rest anyway, or it's possible that they'll still be allowed to charge more per unit as they did under the cap, as a result of not having a standing charge.

Alternatively, you could use less energy and save lots.  You could probably save much more by investing in insulation than you could by hopping suppliers.

We live in a stone built farm house in the Peak National Park close to the highest village in England, additional insulation cannot be applied to the outside only the inside. Which basically means gutting the whole house and adding new dry lining with insulation on the inside and loose about 6-8" on all external walls. The cost of this would probably be easily £1-200k for the 4 bed 3 floor house. It's a non starter.

Oh, and they don't like solar panels or wind turbines either, even though we consistently get high winds up here.

Not sure how I was supposed to predict the changes in energy market when I switched to OFM 6 years ago...

nurquhar

So if OFM is playing fast and loose with the rules, how do I switch to a company that is not ? And who are they ?

MWT

nurquhar said:

So if OFM is playing fast and loose with the rules, how do I switch to a company that is not ? And who are they ?

Absolutely any other supplier will not do what OFTM have done...

That said, the only two likely to accept a switch are EDF or Octopus.at the moment, and you will have to phone them to do it...

[Deleted User]

nurquhar said:

So if OFM is playing fast and loose with the rules, how do I switch to a company that is not ? And who are they ?

I don't think anyone else has a zero standing charge tariff - everyone else seems to be sticking to the cap in the way that we understand it.

Most suppliers have not been accepting switches, although there have been indications that OFGEM will be pressuring them to relax this stance from 1 Oct.  EdF and Octopus have both been accepting switches when contacted directly (i.e. not a switching site or internet form).