Can an employer attach conditions to unpaid lunch break?

Exodi

Gavin83 said:

Exodi said:

My step-dad was 'on call' while working at the railway (basically assisting when trains hit animals or people) - wherein he had to keep his mobile phone on loud, and always nearby when he was at home.

He obviously didn't expect to be paid 24 hours a day, every day, just because he kept his mobile on him. Ridiculous. If he was called out to work, he'd obviously expected to get paid for that.

I genuinely don’t understand how this works. If you’re effectively on call 24/7 when’s your downtime? How does it not restrict what you can/can’t do? Are you free to go and get drunk down the pub? Can you even leave the house?

If it literally only applies when you’re at home but you’re free to come and go as you please then it makes a mockery of the whole thing. After all whats to stop you turning your phone off all the time and if questioned just say you were out?

I’ve done on call work before but it was always clear what hours this covered and I was paid for it, admittedly at a reduced rate. In return I had to be readily available and able to work, so no nipping out or getting drunk. I’ve no idea how this would work constantly.

Theres zero chance I’d work for a company that expected me to be constantly available though. I’d never be able to relax.

I think you've have run away with the idea it was 365 days a year. I can't quite remember his working pattern (I was about 16 at the time), but it was unlikely to be continuous for weeks on end. Plus it wasn't a big hinderence to him not being able to spontaneously 'go get drunk down the pub' as a 50+ year old family man. Even as someone in their 30s, I could count the times I've gotten drunk in the pub this year on one hand, but I appreciate people have different lifestyles - I think someone who enjoys regularly getting drunk down the pub probably isn't well suited to a job that requires them to be on call often.

He could also leave the house as he went shopping and stuff, I'd assume he just had to be available at a reasonably short notice. He was well paid, I believe he was on £60k-ish about 15 years ago. Obviously I'd expect he couldn't go to Cornwall while on call.

The only memories I have were mainly him being called out late at night though, like calls as 2am, 3am - where maybe a gate had broken and a cow had walked onto the tracks and been hit by a train... or someone had commited suicide. His role was basically to organise the clean up operation and ensure the staff (e.g. train drivers) were given adaquete trauma support (e.g. time off, mental support, etc).

Skylark7

As someone who does HR in my company - My opinion would be that if she lives that close to her work I would suggest that she ask whether she could give her mobile number to the person/people who may need to contact her in an emergency and she confirms that should she leave site she will not be more than 5 minutes away at any time during the lunchbreak (as she lives 4 minutes away and other people pop to the shops this seems reasonable) should an emergency arise. They could then call her and she would be prepared to come straight back.

custardy

Exodi said:

Gavin83 said:

Exodi said:

My step-dad was 'on call' while working at the railway (basically assisting when trains hit animals or people) - wherein he had to keep his mobile phone on loud, and always nearby when he was at home.

He obviously didn't expect to be paid 24 hours a day, every day, just because he kept his mobile on him. Ridiculous. If he was called out to work, he'd obviously expected to get paid for that.

I genuinely don’t understand how this works. If you’re effectively on call 24/7 when’s your downtime? How does it not restrict what you can/can’t do? Are you free to go and get drunk down the pub? Can you even leave the house?

If it literally only applies when you’re at home but you’re free to come and go as you please then it makes a mockery of the whole thing. After all whats to stop you turning your phone off all the time and if questioned just say you were out?

I’ve done on call work before but it was always clear what hours this covered and I was paid for it, admittedly at a reduced rate. In return I had to be readily available and able to work, so no nipping out or getting drunk. I’ve no idea how this would work constantly.

Theres zero chance I’d work for a company that expected me to be constantly available though. I’d never be able to relax.

I think you've have run away with the idea it was 365 days a year. I can't quite remember his working pattern (I was about 16 at the time), but it was unlikely to be continuous for weeks on end. Plus it wasn't a big hinderence to him not being able to spontaneously 'go get drunk down the pub' as a 50+ year old family man. Even as someone in their 30s, I could count the times I've gotten drunk in the pub this year on one hand, but I appreciate people have different lifestyles - I think someone who enjoys regularly getting drunk down the pub probably isn't well suited to a job that requires them to be on call often.

He could also leave the house as he went shopping and stuff, I'd assume he just had to be available at a reasonably short notice. He was well paid, I believe he was on £60k-ish about 15 years ago. Obviously I'd expect he couldn't go to Cornwall while on call.

The only memories I have were mainly him being called out late at night though, like calls as 2am, 3am - where maybe a gate had broken and a cow had walked onto the tracks and been hit by a train... or someone had commited suicide. His role was basically to organise the clean up operation and ensure the staff (e.g. train drivers) were given adaquete trauma support (e.g. time off, mental support, etc).

having a drink doesnt equate getting drunk down the pub.
Having a drink and being fit to drive/attend work out of hours is a different thing.

Grumpy_chap

Exodi said:

I think you've have run away with the idea it was 365 days a year. 

The thing about being on call all the time is likely irrelevant to the situation for the OP.

There are industries where all staff are expected to be on call if required to respond to an emergency - railways (where my father worked) and utilities are two big areas.  Also healthcare.

Typically, there are on-call staff who get the first response and would be paid the standby allowance and have the restrictions on where they can be / drinking etc.

Then, if there is a big event that requires response, any member of staff might receive a call at any time and be asked about availability to support.  This allows long-term response to be covered.  Staff are expected to be honest about fitness to work and declare if they cannot, (eg had a drink) and also family constraints that affect availability.

I work in utilities and one year there was a massive failure affecting supply to a large part of West London, on Christmas day stopping Christmas lunch.  The on-call staff did the first response, but there was a very steep cascade for further response through the day and overnight.  It works.

Exodi

custardy said:

having a drink doesnt equate getting drunk down the pub.

I didn't say it did. I was replying to Gavin83 who specifically said getting "drunk down the pub" - I even included his comment in my quote. Odd to try point-score like this.

Savvy_Sue

Skylark7 said:

As someone who does HR in my company - My opinion would be that if she lives that close to her work I would suggest that she ask whether she could give her mobile number to the person/people who may need to contact her in an emergency and she confirms that should she leave site she will not be more than 5 minutes away at any time during the lunchbreak (as she lives 4 minutes away and other people pop to the shops this seems reasonable) should an emergency arise. They could then call her and she would be prepared to come straight back.

And I think there needs to be some clarity about who / how many people are allowed to nip out to the shops at lunchtime, although there is a risk that a blanket ban will be imposed which would obviously not be great. 

Plus, this was one duty manager who said she couldn't leave - is this a general policy, or just a bee in that person's bonnet?