Can an employer attach conditions to unpaid lunch break?

Savvy_Sue

pimbo said:

marcia_ said:

Is she a member of a union?

She is but the workplace rep is terrified of upsetting the employer and nobody answers the helpline and they don't reply to emails either. She's on her own with this one.

Has she tried the helpline at different times? My union's is open well into the evening.

DullGreyGuy

pimbo said:

Undervalued said:

Does this "unpaid hour" take her below the national minimum wage for the total time she is at the theatre?

No it doesn't. But wouldn't it still be a breach of her terms and conditions if her employer refused to allow her to have this time off? And the "no less than 20 minutes" she's entitled to under the working time regs needs to be uninterrupted. If the employer insists that she continues to monitor her work radio in case of an emergency whilst she's on this break then surely this is still classed as working time so she isn't being given the break she's legally entitled to?

But what happens in practice?

In a call centre you will have a fixed lunch time but if you take a call 1 minute before yout scheduled break and it takes 45 minutes to resolve you dont lose your lunch (generally) but it just gets shifted. 

I'd be surprised if she got called into a job at lunch that she wouldnt be able to take a break after.

Brie

DullGreyGuy said:

pimbo said:

Undervalued said:

Does this "unpaid hour" take her below the national minimum wage for the total time she is at the theatre?

No it doesn't. But wouldn't it still be a breach of her terms and conditions if her employer refused to allow her to have this time off? And the "no less than 20 minutes" she's entitled to under the working time regs needs to be uninterrupted. If the employer insists that she continues to monitor her work radio in case of an emergency whilst she's on this break then surely this is still classed as working time so she isn't being given the break she's legally entitled to?

But what happens in practice?

In a call centre you will have a fixed lunch time but if you take a call 1 minute before yout scheduled break and it takes 45 minutes to resolve you dont lose your lunch (generally) but it just gets shifted. 

I'd be surprised if she got called into a job at lunch that she wouldnt be able to take a break after.

If she worked her lunch hour then she should be paid for it.  Whether the employer likes the idea or not. 

And if she has her radio on but isn't actually working then she would be "on call" and get paid a reduced amount for that.  At least that's how anywhere I've worked has handled that situation.

pimbo

Savvy_Sue said:

pimbo said:

marcia_ said:

Is she a member of a union?

She is but the workplace rep is terrified of upsetting the employer and nobody answers the helpline and they don't reply to emails either. She's on her own with this one.

Has she tried the helpline at different times? My union's is open well into the evening.

She has, but it's a lost cause unfortunately. They keep telling her that if her workplace rep isn't prepared to refer her case to a full time official then that's the end of the matter. Had she known that was the case she'd never have joined. They said if she doesn't like it she should follow their internal complaints procedure, but she hasn't got the energy to fight her employer and her union. She's just cancelled her membership. They were just appalling.

Spendless

What sort of technical emergencies do they think is a possibility? Even in the West End Matinee performances tend to only be a couple of times a week, usually a midweek and a weekend. Is it the casts rehearsals that potentially could be an issue if your DD isn't there. Work out the likelihood of the problem and present with a solution might be the way to go. 

pimbo

Spendless said:

What sort of technical emergencies do they think is a possibility? Even in the West End Matinee performances tend to only be a couple of times a week, usually a midweek and a weekend. Is it the casts rehearsals that potentially could be an issue if your DD isn't there. Work out the likelihood of the problem and present with a solution might be the way to go. 

Mainly electrical issues. Usually lighting problems, although it almost never happens. But when she told them that they brought out the spiel about also needing to always have enough fire marshalls on site to evacuate the building. She said fine, but she won't do it for free. They say she must because the working time regulations doesn't explicitly say that the employee can leave their place of work, it just mentions their workstation. It doesn't say they can't leave their place of work either. I can't see how they think they're right.

Spendless

pimbo said:

Spendless said:

What sort of technical emergencies do they think is a possibility? Even in the West End Matinee performances tend to only be a couple of times a week, usually a midweek and a weekend. Is it the casts rehearsals that potentially could be an issue if your DD isn't there. Work out the likelihood of the problem and present with a solution might be the way to go. 

Mainly electrical issues. Usually lighting problems, although it almost never happens. But when she told them that they brought out the spiel about also needing to always have enough fire marshalls on site to evacuate the building. She said fine, but she won't do it for free. They say she must because the working time regulations doesn't explicitly say that the employee can leave their place of work, it just mentions their workstation. It doesn't say they can't leave their place of work either. I can't see how they think they're right.

pimbo said:

Spendless said:

What sort of technical emergencies do they think is a possibility? Even in the West End Matinee performances tend to only be a couple of times a week, usually a midweek and a weekend. Is it the casts rehearsals that potentially could be an issue if your DD isn't there. Work out the likelihood of the problem and present with a solution might be the way to go. 

Mainly electrical issues. Usually lighting problems, although it almost never happens. But when she told them that they brought out the spiel about also needing to always have enough fire marshalls on site to evacuate the building. She said fine, but she won't do it for free. They say she must because the working time regulations doesn't explicitly say that the employee can leave their place of work, it just mentions their workstation. It doesn't say they can't leave their place of work either. I can't see how they think they're right.

It sound to me like it's more about fire marshalls on site than any potential  electrical/lighting issues. I can see they don't want their lighting going off around lunchtime, when both staff and customers might be there for other reasons (I ate my lunch at my theatre's cafe yesterday, which is next to my workplace and bought theatre tickets whilst there, so I appreciate they are still 'running ' to the public) 

As another poster asked, what do they do when she's on annual leave or off sick? Someone must fill that role? In most companies the people with the same skill-set stagger their lunches to cover. I'd also want to know if the other fire marshalls have been told they can't leave the premises either.

silvercar

Is her being a fire Marshall a fixed part of her role, or did she volunteer to take on that duty. If it is an issue could she suggest that she no longer wants to be a fire Marshall, if that is what is preventing her going home?

Undervalued

pimbo said:

Spendless said:

What sort of technical emergencies do they think is a possibility? Even in the West End Matinee performances tend to only be a couple of times a week, usually a midweek and a weekend. Is it the casts rehearsals that potentially could be an issue if your DD isn't there. Work out the likelihood of the problem and present with a solution might be the way to go. 

Mainly electrical issues. Usually lighting problems, although it almost never happens. But when she told them that they brought out the spiel about also needing to always have enough fire marshalls on site to evacuate the building. She said fine, but she won't do it for free. They say she must because the working time regulations doesn't explicitly say that the employee can leave their place of work, it just mentions their workstation. It doesn't say they can't leave their place of work either. I can't see how they think they're right.

It is my understanding (although I may be out of date) that an employer can insist that an employee remains on the premises during their lunch break. As you say, they must be allowed to leave their "workstation". That is usually taken to mean go to the tea room etc. There are certainly some high security workplaces with detailed checks on entering and leaving where it wouldn't be practical to come and go multiple times per day. I am not aware of any regulations specifying where this does and doesn't apply so it is reasonable to assume it is at the employer's discretion. Either way, the lunchbreak still doesn't have to be paid. 

So my inclination is that your daughter's employer is correct.

It would be interesting to get a proper understanding about why the workplace union rep won't "rock the boat". It is easy to dismiss them and the union as "useless" but one does have to think about the real word situation and how practical it would be to enforce a "right" (if indeed it is actually a right in this case). Even if I am wrong and she does have some "rights" in this situation, how is she actually going to enforce them if the employer refuses to play ball? She can't go to a tribunal and get the employer ordered to pay her lunch break or let her leave the building. Effectively she would have to walk out for an hour each day and dare them to sack her. If they did (and obviously assuming they were in the wrong) she could claim unfair dismissal. She would get some compensation (eventually) but would still be out of a job and most likely without a reference.

Andy_L

I've got to say that an unpaid 1 hour lunch break where you can't leave the premises is a bit of a carp deal - its not like you can do much during the break

Is it possible to have a 30min break & start/leave 30min later?