The new Energy price ceiling of £2,500 - some questions on reflection about winners and losers.

t0rt0ise

Mstty said:

t0rt0ise said:

I've already been done out of the council tax rebate because my social housing is in central london so has a high tax banding, and now some of you want me to pay more because this solid walled cold old house means I use more gas for heating than the average. Have a heart!

Social housing?, benefits?, pension? and endlessly cheaper energy? It all has a massive cost.

I guess once in that mindset that everything has to be provided and never go up or you are being victimised is a difficult cycle to break.

No one idea suits all but it has to be kept simple to be applied.

My nan in a 1980's 2 bed detached bungalow will have received around £1100 of help this year. Her new bill with British Gas for the coming year at the EPG price cap freeze rates will be circa £2000. We have been round and setup the boiler properly, setup the TRVs, the hot water and replaced any bulbs that were not energy efficient. Yes her Morrisons shop has gone up but realistically she is faces with a circa £100 a month for energy. 

There will always be fringe cases to any scheme, losers if you will. However they can complain about the state of social housing, lobby their MP, they can request a smaller property if appropriate and although these things take time there is two years of discounted energy to make those changes or moves.

A side note Octopus are sending people physically out to help households with energy saving. What a great idea

I didn't say everything had to be provided. (And no, I don't get any benefits). But the point that you completely missed is that not all higher users of energy are wealthy. I'm surprised that I had to spell my point out to you because you've always come across as one of the more sensible on the forum. I gave one example of someone who uses more than the basis amount of energy and isn't wasteful with energy or wealthy, but it is obvious that there are hundreds of thousands of such, possibly even millions. Having rules such as have been suggested here which would mean that those who are not wealthy are forced to pay what would be in effect a wealth tax is nonsense.

Mstty

t0rt0ise said:

Mstty said:

t0rt0ise said:

I've already been done out of the council tax rebate because my social housing is in central london so has a high tax banding, and now some of you want me to pay more because this solid walled cold old house means I use more gas for heating than the average. Have a heart!

Social housing?, benefits?, pension? and endlessly cheaper energy? It all has a massive cost.

I guess once in that mindset that everything has to be provided and never go up or you are being victimised is a difficult cycle to break.

No one idea suits all but it has to be kept simple to be applied.

My nan in a 1980's 2 bed detached bungalow will have received around £1100 of help this year. Her new bill with British Gas for the coming year at the EPG price cap freeze rates will be circa £2000. We have been round and setup the boiler properly, setup the TRVs, the hot water and replaced any bulbs that were not energy efficient. Yes her Morrisons shop has gone up but realistically she is faces with a circa £100 a month for energy. 

There will always be fringe cases to any scheme, losers if you will. However they can complain about the state of social housing, lobby their MP, they can request a smaller property if appropriate and although these things take time there is two years of discounted energy to make those changes or moves.

A side note Octopus are sending people physically out to help households with energy saving. What a great idea

I didn't say everything had to be provided. (And no, I don't get any benefits). But the point that you completely missed is that not all higher users of energy are wealthy. I'm surprised that I had to spell my point out to you because you've always come across as one of the more sensible on the forum. I gave one example of someone who uses more than the basis amount of energy and isn't wasteful with energy or wealthy, but it is obvious that there are hundreds of thousands of such, possibly even millions. Having rules such as have been suggested here which would mean that those who are not wealthy are forced to pay what would be in effect a wealth tax is nonsense.

We all have off days I'm in the middle of painting the whole upstairs, let's put it down to that👍

I do know there are always exceptions and those to any scheme/guidelines that fall just in and just out and are unduly penalised.

As you say there are some justified high energy users and I would hope that they could be swept up and helped with other schemes and help available. As we know this still does not catch all.

The_Green_Hornet

Sometimes it is interesting to see how other countries are managing the energy crisis. For example, Poland’s government plans to freeze electricity prices in 2023 at this year’s levels for the first 2,000 kilowatt-hours used by households. In addition, households that manage to reduce electricity use by 10% will be rewarded with a 10% price cut as an incentive to save energy.

“We want to encourage saving at this dramatic time, where there is a war going on across our eastern border and we have to bear the consequences of this nightmare energy policy, these mistakes of the German-Russian gas policy,” said Prime Minister Morawiecki yesterday, announcing the new policies.

https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/09/16/poland-to-freeze-electricity-prices-and-reward-households-that-cut-use-by-10/

lindatoo

I think the OP's misunderstanding of the new cap is not untypical. My neighbour and I have many discussions over our garden wall about the various issues of the day, and we share similar opinions both general and political, so when I asked him what he thought about governments price cap announcement, he seemed to think the same as the OP in that once his bill hit £2.5k he wouldn't have to pay anymore, but he didn't want to pay that much in the first place. At first I thought he was joking, he wasn't.

Our local community facebook page had a man complaining that it wasn't fair that he wouldn't be entitled to the £400 as he was not receiving benefits.

Sadly so many people don't understand and it's making them anxious and angry. Hopefully when all rates are confirmed perhaps there will be a clearer message in the various media.

lisyloo

I am genuinely glad to see that most healthy people won’t die if they spend a cold night outside.

Miser1964

Falling gas prices could slash cost of Liz Truss’s £150billion energy bailout

Just a possibility that the Govt.'s huge 'short' position on wholesale gas prices could pay off. Or the Tories could commit the same £150B and announce that the unit price subsidy will increase, so that average bill is closer to £2,000 which would be good politics!

Either way, this shows that the subsidies to cap unit prices was a far smarter action than sending every household £1,000.

[Deleted User]

Miser1964 said:

Falling gas prices could slash cost of Liz Truss’s £150billion energy bailout

Just a possibility that the Govt.'s huge 'short' position on wholesale gas prices could pay off. Or the Tories could commit the same £150B and announce that the unit price subsidy will increase, so that average bill is closer to £2,000 which would be good politics!

Either way, this shows that the subsidies to cap unit prices was a far smarter action than sending every household £1,000.

There are only 28 million households in the UK. Sending everyone household £1,000 would have cost £28 billion.

Miser1964

The net zero policies that should be torn up to save your wealth (telegraph.co.uk)

Good analysis of the £££s that 'going green' is actually costing us, even though Britain produces < 1% of global CO2.

Getting_greyer

Miser1964 said:

The net zero policies that should be torn up to save your wealth (telegraph.co.uk)

Good analysis of the £££s that 'going green' is actually costing us, even though Britain produces < 1% of global CO2.

Comes with being a sevices led economy.  I think it's important to consider consumption of imports when accounting carbon footprint.  

QrizB

Miser1964 said:

The net zero policies that should be torn up to save your wealth (telegraph.co.uk)

Good analysis of the £££s that 'going green' is actually costing us, even though Britain produces < 1% of global CO2.

The Telegraph's standard of journalism is terrible these days.

They claim with a straight face that the £150 green levy costs each household £250 a year.

They then claim another £229 a year for the cost of ROCs, when the cost of the RO is already included in the Green Levy.