New EDF prices - PDF document released with new prices from 1st October 2022

SnakePlissken

QrizB said:

SnakePlissken said:

MWT said:

Zaul22 said:

How are they allowed to charge economy 7 rates above the cap?

This whole thing is ridiculous, the more info we find out the more questions it generates. 

Because there is no such thing as 'the cap'...

The figures the press use and Government for that matter are averages of many caps rolled together.

The basis for the £2,500 is dual fuel (2900/12000 kWh electric/gas) paid by DD as an average across the regions.

E7 will have a different cap based on 4,200kWh split 58/42% day/night, and of course different versions for each region and payment method....

Most people with electric heating will have no chance of being anywhere near 4200 kw in a year.

Yet somehow it's the median value. Probably because of all the electric-only one-bed flats.

4200 KW = 11 units a day. Electric heating such as storage can add 30kw or more  a day to that 11 units at peak of winter.

But outside of heating season, they might only be using 3-4kWh a day.

Just done a quick calc using 41p per unit on 4200 kw and with standing charge and vat it still doesnt match the new cap figure. And thats not using any night units at the lower rate.

I have no idea what calculation you've done, but taking the East Midlands DD rates from here I get:

• Day rate: 47.31p/kWh
• Night rate: 6.90p/kWh
• Standing charge: 45.86p/day
  
• Weighted average: (47.31*0.58) + (6.90*0.42) = 30.3378p/kWh
• Annual cost: £1441.58

There is mair chance of us all living in a simulated world than that  4200 kw being anywhere realistic for annual use in an all electric household.

Do you actually have documented evidence to back that figure up as im finding it hard to believe?

SnakePlissken

QrizB said:

SnakePlissken said:

MWT said:

Zaul22 said:

How are they allowed to charge economy 7 rates above the cap?

This whole thing is ridiculous, the more info we find out the more questions it generates. 

Because there is no such thing as 'the cap'...

The figures the press use and Government for that matter are averages of many caps rolled together.

The basis for the £2,500 is dual fuel (2900/12000 kWh electric/gas) paid by DD as an average across the regions.

E7 will have a different cap based on 4,200kWh split 58/42% day/night, and of course different versions for each region and payment method....

Most people with electric heating will have no chance of being anywhere near 4200 kw in a year.

Yet somehow it's the median value. Probably because of all the electric-only one-bed flats.

4200 KW = 11 units a day. Electric heating such as storage can add 30kw or more  a day to that 11 units at peak of winter.

But outside of heating season, they might only be using 3-4kWh a day.

Just done a quick calc using 41p per unit on 4200 kw and with standing charge and vat it still doesnt match the new cap figure. And thats not using any night units at the lower rate.

I have no idea what calculation you've done, but taking the East Midlands DD rates from here I get:

• Day rate: 47.31p/kWh
• Night rate: 6.90p/kWh
• Standing charge: 45.86p/day
  
• Weighted average: (47.31*0.58) + (6.90*0.42) = 30.3378p/kWh
• Annual cost: £1441.58
  

I used north of scotland rate 41.28 daytime rate.

[Deleted User]

SnakePlissken said:

QrizB said:

SnakePlissken said:

MWT said:

Zaul22 said:

How are they allowed to charge economy 7 rates above the cap?

This whole thing is ridiculous, the more info we find out the more questions it generates. 

Because there is no such thing as 'the cap'...

The figures the press use and Government for that matter are averages of many caps rolled together.

The basis for the £2,500 is dual fuel (2900/12000 kWh electric/gas) paid by DD as an average across the regions.

E7 will have a different cap based on 4,200kWh split 58/42% day/night, and of course different versions for each region and payment method....

Most people with electric heating will have no chance of being anywhere near 4200 kw in a year.

Yet somehow it's the median value. Probably because of all the electric-only one-bed flats.

4200 KW = 11 units a day. Electric heating such as storage can add 30kw or more  a day to that 11 units at peak of winter.

But outside of heating season, they might only be using 3-4kWh a day.

Just done a quick calc using 41p per unit on 4200 kw and with standing charge and vat it still doesnt match the new cap figure. And thats not using any night units at the lower rate.

I have no idea what calculation you've done, but taking the East Midlands DD rates from here I get:

• Day rate: 47.31p/kWh
• Night rate: 6.90p/kWh
• Standing charge: 45.86p/day
  
• Weighted average: (47.31*0.58) + (6.90*0.42) = 30.3378p/kWh
• Annual cost: £1441.58

There is mair chance of us all living in a simulated world than that  4200 kw being anywhere realistic for annual use in an all electric household.

Do you actually have documented evidence to back that figure up as im finding it hard to believe?

Here: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2020/01/tdcvs_2020_decision_letter_0.pdf 

With greater detail here:  https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2019/10/tdcvs_2019_open_letter_0.pdf

And here:  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1079141/subnational_electricity_and_gas_consumption_summary_report_2020.pdf

[Deleted User]

SnakePlissken said:

QrizB said:

SnakePlissken said:

MWT said:

Zaul22 said:

How are they allowed to charge economy 7 rates above the cap?

This whole thing is ridiculous, the more info we find out the more questions it generates. 

Because there is no such thing as 'the cap'...

The figures the press use and Government for that matter are averages of many caps rolled together.

The basis for the £2,500 is dual fuel (2900/12000 kWh electric/gas) paid by DD as an average across the regions.

E7 will have a different cap based on 4,200kWh split 58/42% day/night, and of course different versions for each region and payment method....

Most people with electric heating will have no chance of being anywhere near 4200 kw in a year.

Yet somehow it's the median value. Probably because of all the electric-only one-bed flats.

4200 KW = 11 units a day. Electric heating such as storage can add 30kw or more  a day to that 11 units at peak of winter.

But outside of heating season, they might only be using 3-4kWh a day.

Just done a quick calc using 41p per unit on 4200 kw and with standing charge and vat it still doesnt match the new cap figure. And thats not using any night units at the lower rate.

I have no idea what calculation you've done, but taking the East Midlands DD rates from here I get:

• Day rate: 47.31p/kWh
• Night rate: 6.90p/kWh
• Standing charge: 45.86p/day
  
• Weighted average: (47.31*0.58) + (6.90*0.42) = 30.3378p/kWh
• Annual cost: £1441.58
  

I used north of scotland rate 41.28 daytime rate.

So - with North Scotland rate:

Day 41.28p, night 15.58p, SC 51.16p

Annual cost = (4200*0.58*0.4125)+(4200*0.42*0.1558)+(365*0.5116)
                    = £1466

That's within the range we know E7 caps to be.  It was £1295 for that region in April, and was planned to be £2217 in October before the EPG.

MWT

Looks like the right territory, Eastern region is around £1441

SnakePlissken

MWT said:

Looks like the right territory, Eastern region is around £1441

Im not sure i understand what you mean by right territory?

[Deleted User]

SnakePlissken said:

MWT said:

Looks like the right territory, Eastern region is around £1441

Im not sure i understand what you mean by right territory?

The few times we've calculated new E7 caps they've been around £1440, £1450, £1460 sort of amount.

philipbin

Using the Direct Debit Rates for North Wales and Merseyside it comes out as £1,557.56.

[Deleted User]

philipbin said:

Using the Direct Debit Rates for North Wales and Merseyside it comes out as £1,557.56.

Yeah, that region has the highest cap according to the old data too.

poppellerant

SnakePlissken said:

QrizB said:

SnakePlissken said:

MWT said:

Zaul22 said:

How are they allowed to charge economy 7 rates above the cap?

This whole thing is ridiculous, the more info we find out the more questions it generates. 

Because there is no such thing as 'the cap'...

The figures the press use and Government for that matter are averages of many caps rolled together.

The basis for the £2,500 is dual fuel (2900/12000 kWh electric/gas) paid by DD as an average across the regions.

E7 will have a different cap based on 4,200kWh split 58/42% day/night, and of course different versions for each region and payment method....

Most people with electric heating will have no chance of being anywhere near 4200 kw in a year.

Yet somehow it's the median value. Probably because of all the electric-only one-bed flats.

4200 KW = 11 units a day. Electric heating such as storage can add 30kw or more  a day to that 11 units at peak of winter.

But outside of heating season, they might only be using 3-4kWh a day.

Just done a quick calc using 41p per unit on 4200 kw and with standing charge and vat it still doesnt match the new cap figure. And thats not using any night units at the lower rate.

I have no idea what calculation you've done, but taking the East Midlands DD rates from here I get:

• Day rate: 47.31p/kWh
• Night rate: 6.90p/kWh
• Standing charge: 45.86p/day
  
• Weighted average: (47.31*0.58) + (6.90*0.42) = 30.3378p/kWh
• Annual cost: £1441.58

There is mair chance of us all living in a simulated world than that  4200 kw being anywhere realistic for annual use in an all electric household.

Do you actually have documented evidence to back that figure up as im finding it hard to believe?

I use around 2,500 kWh of electric each year, so it seems realistic enough to me.

I think you need to realise that energy isn't an all-you-can-eat for free resource.  You actually have to pay for what you use, not what you think you should pay for as much as you feel like using.