Upstairs property keeps flooding my kitchen!

Skipsonrecord

Hello,

I'm after a bit of advice regarding damage caused by my neighbouring property not being maintained efficiently.

I own and reside in a ground floor Tyneside flat, with the upstairs flat owned by a private landlord which is maintained by an estate agents.

Not long after I moved in three years ago the ceiling in my kitchen developed a leak. The flat above was unoccupied at the time and it was very difficult to get hold of the agents to check the upstairs property (this only happened after I threatened to force entry). At the time the maintenance team checked my property as well as their own and found no lasting damage. 

Over the following year my bathroom also flooded on three separate occasions whenever my new neighbours had a bath. In the end, the neighbours agreed to refrain from having baths at all but shortly after moved out.

The property then underwent some renovations and when my current neighbours moved in the bath had actually been repaired (hurray!)

Days after renovating my own kitchen, my upstairs neighbours washing machine broke and flooded their kitchen while they were at work, thus flooding my own kitchen. The maintenance company inspected my property as well as their own but found no lasting damage. It was found that the leak was caused by the tenant not fitting the washing machine correctly.

Earlier this year, after one of the more aggressive storms we faced last winter, I noticed quite a significant amount of roof tiles had fallen off the building. I informed my neighbours and the estate agents and requested it be looked into for fear of any further flooding. As far as I'm aware, this never happened.

Last Friday I woke up to a power cut and discovered my fuse box had been tripped due to a leak from my kitchen light fixtures, that had once again caused my kitchen to flood overnight. I contacted my neighbours and they didn't notice any water in their own kitchen at first, but then noticed there were trickles of water running down their walls. They contacted the agents who then contacted me and explained they were dealing with quite a few flooded properties due to the high rainfall overnight. They said they would try to attend the property that day, but if not it would be over the weekend. It's now Tuesday and my neighbour has told me they still haven't been out to check the roof. 

To add to this, the property is currently up for sale by auction at the end of September.

The leak has stopped and it doesn't look like it has caused any lasting damage to my kitchen, but I am still without lights across the flat. 

My question is, am I within my right to contact the agents informing them that I'll be hiring an electrician to fix my lights and a decorator to repaint my ceiling and expect them to foot the bill, or should I speak to a solicitor first? And if I do speak to a solicitor, can it just be any solicitor that specialises in property law? How much would I expect them to charge me for this kind of legal help, etc?

Any advice much appreciated!

TLDR: Upstairs property keeps flooding into my own but agents keep fobbing me off. Should I seek legal action?

Bendy_House

Wow! You are one unlucky person

It would appear that all these unfortunate leaks are not really connected, and haven't been due to negligence. In which case, you don't really have a valid claim against them.

The incorrectly-plumbed W/M could be an exception, but whether it's worth pursuing this is very debatable.

In essence, if a leak occurs due to a spontaneous fault, or through something that couldn't reasonably be anticipated, then it's just a fact of life, and the whole property's Buildings insurance covers the repair to any fabric, and your personal Contents insurance covers cosmetic damage or ruined contents in your own flat. That last bit might seem unfair, but if it wasn't actually someone's 'fault' then it's probably right that they ain't liable. It is, after all, exactly what insurance is for.

(Typical 'negligence' would be, say, if the person in the flat above knew that the seal around their shower was peeling away, but did nothing about it. Or, if you pointed out a small leak, they continued to use the item causing a bigger one. Or, instead of plumbing something in correctly using a 'pro', they got their mate from the pub to do it. That sort of thing...)

Fortunately, you appear to have got away with it in your flat not requiring remedial work!

The roof is a similar issue - unless it was in an obviously poor condition, then it is just 'one of these things' and needs to be repaired. If the water actually damaged the fabric of your flat - if the ceiling came down, or kitchen units were ruined - then I think that's 'Buildings', so you can claim on the joint Buildings policy, but you'd need to do that through the LL, who organises it. Tbh, unless they are also claiming on this for the roof, it's unlikely they'll want to do so for your flat, so may try and fob you off, or offer you a repair by their own guys.

(NB You'd need to confirm what is 'Buildings' - ie organised by the LL and shared amongst all the flats - and 'Contents' which is personally yours. See what each policy covers here.)

So, just keep asking for updates from the LL, and also point out what damage - if any - has been caused to your flat, and who will sort it. Do this by a recordable means - text or email.

And check out your contents policy - see what's covered.

Do you have Legal Protection included in your policy? If so, and if necessary (in fact, there's little harm in calling them up for a chat), you can ask them to ensure the LL does everything they are expected to.

Not much you can do about your sale (except should HURRAH! when you move out), but just explain to any viewer/the EA that there has been a leak due to the recent thunderstorms, and that the LL is sorting it. I wouldn't mention the other leaks, as they are not relevant.

Skipsonrecord

Bendy_House said:

Wow! You are one unlucky person

It would appear that all these unfortunate leaks are not really connected, and haven't been due to negligence. In which case, you don't really have a valid claim against them.

The incorrectly-plumbed W/M could be an exception, but whether it's worth pursuing this is very debatable.

In essence, if a leak occurs due to a spontaneous fault, or through something that couldn't reasonably be anticipated, then it's just a fact of life, and the whole property's Buildings insurance covers the repair to any fabric, and your personal Contents insurance covers cosmetic damage or ruined contents in your own flat. That last bit might seem unfair, but if it wasn't actually someone's 'fault' then it's probably right that they ain't liable. It is, after all, exactly what insurance is for.

(Typical 'negligence' would be, say, if the person in the flat above knew that the seal around their shower was peeling away, but did nothing about it. Or, if you pointed out a small leak, they continued to use the item causing a bigger one. Or, instead of plumbing something in correctly using a 'pro', they got their mate from the pub to do it. That sort of thing...)

Fortunately, you appear to have got away with it in your flat not requiring remedial work!

The roof is a similar issue - unless it was in an obviously poor condition, then it is just 'one of these things' and needs to be repaired. If the water actually damaged the fabric of your flat - if the ceiling came down, or kitchen units were ruined - then I think that's 'Buildings', so you can claim on the joint Buildings policy, but you'd need to do that through the LL, who organises it. Tbh, unless they are also claiming on this for the roof, it's unlikely they'll want to do so for your flat, so may try and fob you off, or offer you a repair by their own guys.

(NB You'd need to confirm what is 'Buildings' - ie organised by the LL and shared amongst all the flats - and 'Contents' which is personally yours. See what each policy covers here.)

So, just keep asking for updates from the LL, and also point out what damage - if any - has been caused to your flat, and who will sort it. Do this by a recordable means - text or email.

And check out your contents policy - see what's covered.

Do you have Legal Protection included in your policy? If so, and if necessary (in fact, there's little harm in calling them up for a chat), you can ask them to ensure the LL does everything they are expected to.

Not much you can do about your sale (except should HURRAH! when you move out), but just explain to any viewer/the EA that there has been a leak due to the recent thunderstorms, and that the LL is sorting it. I wouldn't mention the other leaks, as they are not relevant.

Thanks for this detailed reply! I'm assuming if they don't fix the roof and there's another leak due to bad weather, I will have a case.

And unfortunately it's not me selling, it's the property above which is why it's all up in the air a bit, and probably why they're not exactly forthcoming in repairing the damaged roof.

Bendy_House

Skipsonrecord said:

Thanks for this detailed reply! I'm assuming if they don't fix the roof and there's another leak due to bad weather, I will have a case.

And unfortunately it's not me selling, it's the property above which is why it's all up in the air a bit, and probably why they're not exactly forthcoming in repairing the damaged roof.

Yes, that's the essence of it. If they obviously just patch it up in a poor manner, and it's no surprise it leaks again, then they can be claimed against. I guess you'd be claiming against 'your' buildings insurance (which everyone contributes to) so as not to claim on your individual 'contents'?

Do bear in mind that the actual repairs - unless it was storm damage which may be covered by the building's policy - will need to be paid for by all the flats involved - that includes you.

Ie, if this roof is falling apart and needs completely redoing, you will almost certainly be liable for a share of the cost. If there are only two properties, then that's half.

Fingers crossed it's a valid 'Buildings' claim. On that point, I probably wouldn't annoy the LL too much for now... :-)

The new flat owner above will be liable for their share of the repairs, unless the current owner does so before they sell.

That's my understanding of it.

Skipsonrecord

Bendy_House said:

Skipsonrecord said:

Thanks for this detailed reply! I'm assuming if they don't fix the roof and there's another leak due to bad weather, I will have a case.

And unfortunately it's not me selling, it's the property above which is why it's all up in the air a bit, and probably why they're not exactly forthcoming in repairing the damaged roof.

Yes, that's the essence of it. If they obviously just patch it up in a poor manner, and it's no surprise it leaks again, then they can be claimed against. I guess you'd be claiming against 'your' buildings insurance (which everyone contributes to) so as not to claim on your individual 'contents'?

Do bear in mind that the actual repairs - unless it was storm damage which may be covered by the building's policy - will need to be paid for by all the flats involved - that includes you.

Ie, if this roof is falling apart and needs completely redoing, you will almost certainly be liable for a share of the cost. If there are only two properties, then that's half.

Fingers crossed it's a valid 'Buildings' claim. On that point, I probably wouldn't annoy the LL too much for now... :-)

The new flat owner above will be liable for their share of the repairs, unless the current owner does so before they sell.

That's my understanding of it.

My understanding is that Tyneside flats work a little differently to normal two story flats. I have buildings and contents insurance for my flat and land (which includes front and back yard) and the landlord for upstairs will have a separate buildings insurance for their property. I recall my solicitor explaining it to me (ironically) as "upstairs keep downstairs dry with a roof, downstairs keep upstairs upright with walls"

kdotdotdotdot

Skipsonrecord said:

Bendy_House said:

Skipsonrecord said:

Thanks for this detailed reply! I'm assuming if they don't fix the roof and there's another leak due to bad weather, I will have a case.

And unfortunately it's not me selling, it's the property above which is why it's all up in the air a bit, and probably why they're not exactly forthcoming in repairing the damaged roof.

Yes, that's the essence of it. If they obviously just patch it up in a poor manner, and it's no surprise it leaks again, then they can be claimed against. I guess you'd be claiming against 'your' buildings insurance (which everyone contributes to) so as not to claim on your individual 'contents'?

Do bear in mind that the actual repairs - unless it was storm damage which may be covered by the building's policy - will need to be paid for by all the flats involved - that includes you.

Ie, if this roof is falling apart and needs completely redoing, you will almost certainly be liable for a share of the cost. If there are only two properties, then that's half.

Fingers crossed it's a valid 'Buildings' claim. On that point, I probably wouldn't annoy the LL too much for now... :-)

The new flat owner above will be liable for their share of the repairs, unless the current owner does so before they sell.

That's my understanding of it.

 I recall my solicitor explaining it to me (ironically) as "upstairs keep downstairs dry with a roof, downstairs keep upstairs upright with walls"

Then clearly it's time for you to return the favour and start knocking holes in the walls!!

But seriously now. The delay in getting action may not be because the agent is rubbish (although that may be a factor) but also because trying to find a roofer who can come in under a month is like finding the goose that lays the golden egg.

Skipsonrecord

kdotdotdotdot said:

Skipsonrecord said:

Bendy_House said:

Skipsonrecord said:

Thanks for this detailed reply! I'm assuming if they don't fix the roof and there's another leak due to bad weather, I will have a case.

And unfortunately it's not me selling, it's the property above which is why it's all up in the air a bit, and probably why they're not exactly forthcoming in repairing the damaged roof.

Yes, that's the essence of it. If they obviously just patch it up in a poor manner, and it's no surprise it leaks again, then they can be claimed against. I guess you'd be claiming against 'your' buildings insurance (which everyone contributes to) so as not to claim on your individual 'contents'?

Do bear in mind that the actual repairs - unless it was storm damage which may be covered by the building's policy - will need to be paid for by all the flats involved - that includes you.

Ie, if this roof is falling apart and needs completely redoing, you will almost certainly be liable for a share of the cost. If there are only two properties, then that's half.

Fingers crossed it's a valid 'Buildings' claim. On that point, I probably wouldn't annoy the LL too much for now... :-)

The new flat owner above will be liable for their share of the repairs, unless the current owner does so before they sell.

That's my understanding of it.

 I recall my solicitor explaining it to me (ironically) as "upstairs keep downstairs dry with a roof, downstairs keep upstairs upright with walls"

Then clearly it's time for you to return the favour and start knocking holes in the walls!!

But seriously now. The delay in getting action may not be because the agent is rubbish (although that may be a factor) but also because trying to find a roofer who can come in under a month is like finding the goose that lays the golden egg.

Yes that's true, but the roof tiles came off back in January and both myself and the tenant informed the agents that work would likely be needed so they've had the best part of a year to get it sorted.

Skipsonrecord

Update: my neighbour has been in touch to say the agents sent a roofer out to inspect the property but found no leaks. If this happens again following heavy rainfall, I'll be contacting a solicitor for advice.

chris_n

Do you have legal cover on your insurances. Who owns the freehold? Do you pay a service charge?
With the amount of water you say you have had coming it it is highly unlikely that there is no damage to your kitchen units etc. I certainly wouldn't be taking the word of someone else's maintenance team.

Bendy_House

Skipsonrecord said:

Update: my neighbour has been in touch to say the agents sent a roofer out to inspect the property but found no leaks. If this happens again following heavy rainfall, I'll be contacting a solicitor for advice.

Are you saying that the roof tiles that came off in January have not been replaced?! And this roofer found nothing amiss?!!