A reason NOT to use InvestEngine?

AndyTh_2

AndyTh_2 said:

masonic said:

AndyTh_2 said:

masonic said:

AndyTh_2 said:

B0bbyEwing said:

Bit of background info as to where I'm coming from - 

I'm trying to re-jig the finances where we'll have X-amount in cash & anything beyond that can get thrown in a S&S ISA to hopefully do better than savings interest rates. 
If our cash account dips below the amount we set, we simply don't put any left over cash in to the S&S ISA until the cash account is topped up again.

Now these S&S ISA deposits could me monthly, half yearly, yearly or whatever, it really doesn't matter. With some companies it wont make a difference, with others it may be cheaper to go once per year.

So I checked out: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/stocks-shares-isas/

And got the too-good-to-be-true feeling with InvestEngine.

I have my Lifetime ISA with AJ Bell so was originally thinking about them, but when I looked at the charges, I used £5k as a rough random figure with 1 trade per year & it said £14/year on charges vs £0 with IE.
Ok, 10 years is "only" £140 so on the one hand not a massive amount but on the other hand, I don't particularly want to throw money away for the sake of it. A can of diet coke was 59p in Aldi, same can £1 in Sainsbury's. Why buy it in Sainsbury's? Kind of thing. Note* - I'm not honestly asking to get in to any silly reasons why you'd buy in Sainsbury's, the point should be clear.



Now I don't really know enough about investing to go cherry pinking various funds & building my own portfolio. I just buy in to a general world tracker of a risk I select (e.g. HSBC Global Strategy <risk level>) which is what I do for my Lifetime ISA & SIPP with Fidelity and what I would do here.

But it looks like IE only deal in ETFs? I'm not familiar with them to be honest so if I understand correctly, would "Vanguard FTSE Developed World - VHVG" be a comparable investment if I was wanting some kind of global tracker?

The lack of charges sound too good to be true. I'm pretty much just wanting somewhere to chuck spare cash, invested in a global tracker at a cheap (free is always ideal) rate.

Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF (VWRL distributing or VWRP accumulation) is a global index tracker available. However the HSBC risk level ones are probably including a % bonds based on perceived risk level.

...with a considerable jump in management fee. It would be more cost-efficient to combine VHVG with an emerging markets ETF.

Yes but if you want to keep meeting the global index with two funds, you'd have to rebalance every so often, which may be not worth the time. It's a fine choice to make though.

Not true if you hold the two funds in proportion to their global market cap. They will stay in balance.

AndyTh_2 said:

I'm merely saying that a global index ETF matches a global index, which a developed world one doesn't. HSBC Global Strategy covers both developed and emerging markets so VHVG wasn't comparable.

Neither was VWRL, as HSBC Global Strategy contains property and bonds, which neither VHVG nor VWRL do. The HSBC Global Strategy funds are actively managed over the market cycle and have a controlled risk profile, whereas the two ETFs track indexes.

I was more interested in the following comment:

AndyTh_2 said:

InvestEngine is a much smaller broker in comparison, and so may and has previously experienced trade volume issues leading to short term illiquidity in being able to buy or sell.

Could you provide more details about the previous liquidity issues? Not being able to buy or sell is a bigger issue than 0.1% on management fees.

Maybe I mistook the news I heard for Freetrade instead, as it makes more sense that a fixed time of day bulk purchase/sell has less unexpected illiquidity

nvm, found it https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/upcb6n/anyone_else_having_liquidity_issues_with/

masonic

AndyTh_2 said:

Maybe I mistook the news I heard for Freetrade instead, as it makes more sense that a fixed time of day bulk purchase/sell has less unexpected illiquidity

Yes, both Freetrade and Trading212 seem to have delays when placing supposed live market orders (not more than minutes-hours). Generally not an issue if you are a long term investor rather than a trader, though annoying nonetheless if the price moves against you in the interim.

AndyTh_2 said:

AndyTh_2 said:

masonic said:

AndyTh_2 said:

masonic said:

AndyTh_2 said:

B0bbyEwing said:

Bit of background info as to where I'm coming from - 

I'm trying to re-jig the finances where we'll have X-amount in cash & anything beyond that can get thrown in a S&S ISA to hopefully do better than savings interest rates. 
If our cash account dips below the amount we set, we simply don't put any left over cash in to the S&S ISA until the cash account is topped up again.

Now these S&S ISA deposits could me monthly, half yearly, yearly or whatever, it really doesn't matter. With some companies it wont make a difference, with others it may be cheaper to go once per year.

So I checked out: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/stocks-shares-isas/

And got the too-good-to-be-true feeling with InvestEngine.

I have my Lifetime ISA with AJ Bell so was originally thinking about them, but when I looked at the charges, I used £5k as a rough random figure with 1 trade per year & it said £14/year on charges vs £0 with IE.
Ok, 10 years is "only" £140 so on the one hand not a massive amount but on the other hand, I don't particularly want to throw money away for the sake of it. A can of diet coke was 59p in Aldi, same can £1 in Sainsbury's. Why buy it in Sainsbury's? Kind of thing. Note* - I'm not honestly asking to get in to any silly reasons why you'd buy in Sainsbury's, the point should be clear.



Now I don't really know enough about investing to go cherry pinking various funds & building my own portfolio. I just buy in to a general world tracker of a risk I select (e.g. HSBC Global Strategy <risk level>) which is what I do for my Lifetime ISA & SIPP with Fidelity and what I would do here.

But it looks like IE only deal in ETFs? I'm not familiar with them to be honest so if I understand correctly, would "Vanguard FTSE Developed World - VHVG" be a comparable investment if I was wanting some kind of global tracker?

The lack of charges sound too good to be true. I'm pretty much just wanting somewhere to chuck spare cash, invested in a global tracker at a cheap (free is always ideal) rate.

Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF (VWRL distributing or VWRP accumulation) is a global index tracker available. However the HSBC risk level ones are probably including a % bonds based on perceived risk level.

...with a considerable jump in management fee. It would be more cost-efficient to combine VHVG with an emerging markets ETF.

Yes but if you want to keep meeting the global index with two funds, you'd have to rebalance every so often, which may be not worth the time. It's a fine choice to make though.

Not true if you hold the two funds in proportion to their global market cap. They will stay in balance.

AndyTh_2 said:

I'm merely saying that a global index ETF matches a global index, which a developed world one doesn't. HSBC Global Strategy covers both developed and emerging markets so VHVG wasn't comparable.

Neither was VWRL, as HSBC Global Strategy contains property and bonds, which neither VHVG nor VWRL do. The HSBC Global Strategy funds are actively managed over the market cycle and have a controlled risk profile, whereas the two ETFs track indexes.

I was more interested in the following comment:

AndyTh_2 said:

InvestEngine is a much smaller broker in comparison, and so may and has previously experienced trade volume issues leading to short term illiquidity in being able to buy or sell.

Could you provide more details about the previous liquidity issues? Not being able to buy or sell is a bigger issue than 0.1% on management fees.

Maybe I mistook the news I heard for Freetrade instead, as it makes more sense that a fixed time of day bulk purchase/sell has less unexpected illiquidity

nvm, found it https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/upcb6n/anyone_else_having_liquidity_issues_with/

Hmm, that's concerning. I wonder which securities were being sold there. Hopefully I'll be able to get out my £100 worth of VEVE when I can do so without them clawing back my cashback! It would be enough to put me off investing there for real.

AndyTh_2

masonic said:

AndyTh_2 said:

Maybe I mistook the news I heard for Freetrade instead, as it makes more sense that a fixed time of day bulk purchase/sell has less unexpected illiquidity

Yes, both Freetrade and Trading212 seem to have delays when placing supposed live market orders (not more than minutes-hours). Generally not an issue if you are a long term investor rather than a trader, though annoying nonetheless if the price moves against you in the interim.

AndyTh_2 said:

AndyTh_2 said:

masonic said:

AndyTh_2 said:

masonic said:

AndyTh_2 said:

B0bbyEwing said:

Bit of background info as to where I'm coming from - 

I'm trying to re-jig the finances where we'll have X-amount in cash & anything beyond that can get thrown in a S&S ISA to hopefully do better than savings interest rates. 
If our cash account dips below the amount we set, we simply don't put any left over cash in to the S&S ISA until the cash account is topped up again.

Now these S&S ISA deposits could me monthly, half yearly, yearly or whatever, it really doesn't matter. With some companies it wont make a difference, with others it may be cheaper to go once per year.

So I checked out: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/stocks-shares-isas/

And got the too-good-to-be-true feeling with InvestEngine.

I have my Lifetime ISA with AJ Bell so was originally thinking about them, but when I looked at the charges, I used £5k as a rough random figure with 1 trade per year & it said £14/year on charges vs £0 with IE.
Ok, 10 years is "only" £140 so on the one hand not a massive amount but on the other hand, I don't particularly want to throw money away for the sake of it. A can of diet coke was 59p in Aldi, same can £1 in Sainsbury's. Why buy it in Sainsbury's? Kind of thing. Note* - I'm not honestly asking to get in to any silly reasons why you'd buy in Sainsbury's, the point should be clear.



Now I don't really know enough about investing to go cherry pinking various funds & building my own portfolio. I just buy in to a general world tracker of a risk I select (e.g. HSBC Global Strategy <risk level>) which is what I do for my Lifetime ISA & SIPP with Fidelity and what I would do here.

But it looks like IE only deal in ETFs? I'm not familiar with them to be honest so if I understand correctly, would "Vanguard FTSE Developed World - VHVG" be a comparable investment if I was wanting some kind of global tracker?

The lack of charges sound too good to be true. I'm pretty much just wanting somewhere to chuck spare cash, invested in a global tracker at a cheap (free is always ideal) rate.

Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF (VWRL distributing or VWRP accumulation) is a global index tracker available. However the HSBC risk level ones are probably including a % bonds based on perceived risk level.

...with a considerable jump in management fee. It would be more cost-efficient to combine VHVG with an emerging markets ETF.

Yes but if you want to keep meeting the global index with two funds, you'd have to rebalance every so often, which may be not worth the time. It's a fine choice to make though.

Not true if you hold the two funds in proportion to their global market cap. They will stay in balance.

AndyTh_2 said:

I'm merely saying that a global index ETF matches a global index, which a developed world one doesn't. HSBC Global Strategy covers both developed and emerging markets so VHVG wasn't comparable.

Neither was VWRL, as HSBC Global Strategy contains property and bonds, which neither VHVG nor VWRL do. The HSBC Global Strategy funds are actively managed over the market cycle and have a controlled risk profile, whereas the two ETFs track indexes.

I was more interested in the following comment:

AndyTh_2 said:

InvestEngine is a much smaller broker in comparison, and so may and has previously experienced trade volume issues leading to short term illiquidity in being able to buy or sell.

Could you provide more details about the previous liquidity issues? Not being able to buy or sell is a bigger issue than 0.1% on management fees.

Maybe I mistook the news I heard for Freetrade instead, as it makes more sense that a fixed time of day bulk purchase/sell has less unexpected illiquidity

nvm, found it https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/upcb6n/anyone_else_having_liquidity_issues_with/

Hmm, that's concerning. I wonder which securities were being sold there. Hopefully I'll be able to get out my £100 worth of VEVE when I can do so without them clawing back my cashback! It would be enough to put me off investing there for real.

It's the sort of thing the definitely put me off transferring an S&S ISA there for £500 cashback (also I wasn't sure how hard it'd be to transfer back again after the deal terms finished).

I'd be less worried with only £10k though.

wmb194

Masonic wrote: "Yes, both Freetrade and Trading212 seem to have delays when placing supposed live market orders (not more than minutes-hours)."

I've been using it a lot for both ETFs and individual companies from large cap to small and this isn't my experience with Freetrade, trades go through in a few seconds. T212's a bit rubbish, though, a real mixed bag. Sometimes fairly quick e.g., FTSE100 and other times never e.g., preference shares.

sebtomato

I have large investments in various platforms: Vanguard, Freetrade, Trading212 and InvestEngine.

I like InvestEngine because it's very easy to create a diversified portfolio (pie) by region/country and automatically invest money matching the portfolio structure.

In my case, 40% USA, 20% Europe outside of the UK, 18% UK etc.

They support fractional ETFs.

What I don't like: it take a day to load money, invest it and see the new updated portfolio.

B0bbyEwing

sebtomato said:

I have large investments in various platforms: Vanguard, Freetrade, Trading212 and InvestEngine.

I like InvestEngine because it's very easy to create a diversified portfolio (pie) by region/country and automatically invest money matching the portfolio structure.

In my case, 40% USA, 20% Europe outside of the UK, 18% UK etc.

They support fractional ETFs.

What I don't like: it take a day to load money, invest it and see the new updated portfolio.

Not too bad if you know what you are doing, which you seem to.

I think I illustrated on page 1 that I probably don't. 

Not only that, I don't want to have to be constantly keeping tabs. I'd like to set it up & then my only real involvement be to keep putting money in to it.

cloud_dog

I've got a few hundred in IE, but I have to be honest I stopped adding in to IE based on the Reddit post, but also because in concept I liked the idea, but in practice I am finding that I'm not really happy with it, e.g. with the 'average' transaction price for the day, etc.

DavidT67

B0bbyEwing said:

sebtomato said:

I have large investments in various platforms: Vanguard, Freetrade, Trading212 and InvestEngine.

I like InvestEngine because it's very easy to create a diversified portfolio (pie) by region/country and automatically invest money matching the portfolio structure.

In my case, 40% USA, 20% Europe outside of the UK, 18% UK etc.

They support fractional ETFs.

What I don't like: it take a day to load money, invest it and see the new updated portfolio.

Not too bad if you know what you are doing, which you seem to.

I think I illustrated on page 1 that I probably don't. 

Not only that, I don't want to have to be constantly keeping tabs. I'd like to set it up & then my only real involvement be to keep putting money in to it.

Both T212 and InvestEngine allow fractional share purchases.  This make things more complicated when buying and selling. 

T212 since reopening to new business, does some internal trade matching and marketmaking. InvestEngine, aggregates and trades in bulk once daily, but seems to rely on third parties to match trades. 

So for IE, It's honestly concerning that a) they had issues, b) they haven't made an announcement about the whys and wherefores.  Is it was a system outage, OK, if it's a flaw in their trade flow strategy, have they resolved it? 

Given the above, I'd avoid both T212 and IE.  Freetrade I've other concerns about, as regards audit and compliance standards. 

In general choose one of the large, established players such as AJ Bell, H&L and sleep more soundly.

B0bbyEwing

DavidT67 said:

In general choose one of the large, established players such as AJ Bell, H&L and sleep more soundly.

I think you may be on to a winner there.

wmb194

DavidT67 said:

B0bbyEwing said:

sebtomato said:

I have large investments in various platforms: Vanguard, Freetrade, Trading212 and InvestEngine.

I like InvestEngine because it's very easy to create a diversified portfolio (pie) by region/country and automatically invest money matching the portfolio structure.

In my case, 40% USA, 20% Europe outside of the UK, 18% UK etc.

They support fractional ETFs.

What I don't like: it take a day to load money, invest it and see the new updated portfolio.

Not too bad if you know what you are doing, which you seem to.

I think I illustrated on page 1 that I probably don't. 

Not only that, I don't want to have to be constantly keeping tabs. I'd like to set it up & then my only real involvement be to keep putting money in to it.

Freetrade I've other concerns about, as regards audit and compliance standards.

Why do you have concerns?