Openreach delays for FFTP

rchlwrd

Hello, We are currently stuck in the middle of a battle to get FFTC installed at our [rented] home. We are moving away from Virgin Media after 10+ years due to their costs, and going with EE FFTP.... Everything was going fine until installation day where it was discovered by Openreach engineers that a tiny less than 1ft section of ducting is blocked, presumed collapsed.  That's where the fun and games started.  We have spent the last 64 days trying to get Openreach to send a form to our Housing Association landlord to request the appropriate permission and replace the ducting.  Should have been easy, right? EE have been pursuing the request, Openreach have been feeding back that they've sent the request via post and email to the Housing Association, Housing Association have been proving that no such request has been received.  This cycle of blame has been going on resulting in a complaint reaching quite high levels of escalation within EE.

Eventually Openreach have submitted a blank permission to work form to the Housing Association, who replied and asked for details - no details were initially provided, not even the detail or scale of the works!! Openreach just keep sending back blank forms.  So the Housing Association asked for details of the original Wayleaves for the 4 properties in our terraced row.  We have copies of the land registry for each of the 4 properties and the land is owned by the Housing Association where the dig needs to take place.  Openreach have refused to give this and are demanding that a permission to dig request is completed instead.  The Housing Association are concerned that this leaves them with no safeguarding for the work.

Where do we stand in all this? This isn't a new install of ducting; it's maintenance to what is already in place.  The houses are about 20 years old and we think the ducting has been there since build.  I'm not a homeowner so don't understand some of the legalities about when a Wayleaves agreement is required and when it's not, but we appear to be in a bit of a stalemate situation, at our detriment.  Myself and my husband are both IT professionals, that WFH and have side businesses all requiring super fast broadband (and more importantly, the upload speed) so really want FFTP to support our, and don't really want to stick with Virgin Media at £70pcm.  VM can't match our EE offer, even through retention's team.

Is there anything we can do? The stress of this has been unbelievable. 

Alderbank

Welcome to the Forum!

You make it clear that the businesses you operate from home 'all require super fast broadband'.
You will have obtained written permission from your HA to run your business from home. Social landlords normally give permission when it's a reasonable request. However be aware that they can refuse or withdraw permission so be a little careful how hard you push them.

I have worked for several HAs and none would have had any problem with permission to dig. Other utilities like water dig things up all the time. There is always a fairly basic procedure agreement about ensuring any excavation has prevention from fall risks, maintains easy escape, etc. and is properly backfilled and made good afterwards. I don't understand the bit about 'concerned that this leaves them with no safeguarding for the work.'

Your HA has a board of governors made up of local councillors and volunteer residents. I would at this stage be approaching individual board members in your area or who might have an interest in promoting digital inclusion to see if any of them will support your case.

rchlwrd

Alderbank said:

Welcome to the Forum!

You make it clear that the businesses you operate from home 'all require super fast broadband'.
You will have obtained written permission from your HA to run your business from home. Social landlords normally give permission when it's a reasonable request. However be aware that they can refuse or withdraw permission so be a little careful how hard you push them.

I have worked for several HAs and none would have had any problem with permission to dig. Other utilities like water dig things up all the time. There is always a fairly basic procedure agreement about ensuring any excavation has prevention from fall risks, maintains easy escape, etc. and is properly backfilled and made good afterwards. I don't understand the bit about 'concerned that this leaves them with no safeguarding for the work.'

Your HA has a board of governors made up of local councillors and volunteer residents. I would at this stage be approaching individual board members in your area or who might have an interest in promoting digital inclusion to see if any of them will support your case.

Thanks for your reply! We have permission to work from home, but the side ‘businesses’ we have aren’t money making businesses. Sorry I didn’t make that clear; I meant that in the sense that we do work/activities/personal hobbies that require super fast broadband (hubby is a youtube content creator and podcaster). I do lots of voluntary work for charities and constantly in zoom calls or conducting trainings or uploaded documentation for that. Either way, the HA are aware of everything and we’ve never tried to hide anything 😊

Ironically, we both actually work for a different housing association! I don’t believe our landlords HA would have an issue either with the dig, but just want those assurances in place. They say in the form of a wayleaves is the easiest way. Safeguarding was the term they used but I understand that as you have described with regards to healthy and safety etc 

Eldi_Dos

Contact your Openreach plant protection officer if indeed the duct belongs to Openreach  (may be HA property).

What type of surface is blockage below?

rchlwrd

Eldi_Dos said:

Contact your Openreach plant protection officer if indeed the duct belongs to Openreach  (may be HA property).

What type of surface is blockage below?

How do we find out who that is? Openreach refuse to talk to us directly as we’re not their customer 🙈

It’s below tarmac - a shared parking area for the 4 HA’s properties. The blockage is outside one of the other houses not specifically ours, but what isn’t an issue at play considering they’re owned by the same company. 

Eldi_Dos

Openreach will not talk to you about a EE order, you have to deal direct with them about your order, but a Plant Protection Officer has responsibilities for the existing plant so contacting them might help cut through the bureaucracy.But only if it is Openreach duct, reading your first post that may not be the case.

littleboo

Also consider that for Openreach, this job might be quite a long way down the priority list. There is no loss of service, it's additional cost to get one customer connected, there is the bureaucracy of getting the necessary permissions to dig.

Ben1989

I'll be honest, I had no end of bother (twice) with Sky. Me talking to Sky > Sky *trying* to talk to Openreach > Sky letting me know. It would take a week to get an answer and the answer would be a 5 word summary off their report system. After about a month I finally got told there were no available outlets for my broadband and I would literally have to wait for somebody to move or discover they no longer wanted wifi so was forced to go with Virgin. Yes, they're more expensive but so nice having a company that own their own infrastructure and have full control over it. Plus, their fibre goes direct into the property, not to a box.

littleboo

" Plus, their fibre goes direct into the property, not to a box."

Expect that for VM, most of their fibre coverage does go to a box and not the premises. The OP seems to be referring to Openreach FTTP, so that is indeed fibre to the premises and not a box

rchlwrd

littleboo said:

Also consider that for Openreach, this job might be quite a long way down the priority list. There is no loss of service, it's additional cost to get one customer connected, there is the bureaucracy of getting the necessary permissions to dig.

Sorry, I don’t mean to be defensive but I don’t see this an answer from them. They are a multi million pound company. They don’t just pick the contracts up that are ‘easy’ or dismiss customers because of bureaucracy… that’s ludicrous business practice. We aren’t asking them to install fibre to the whole street. Just from the junction at the end of our culdesac to the property we reside in. We don’t live in a massive metropolitan city so there should be more than enough engineers to deal with it. The issue is with agents doing their jobs within the office. 

littleboo

I'm not saying that its is the position, just surmising that it might be. I'd say that prioritising your resources to where they have the biggest impact is very good business practice.