Energy Price Guarantee (announced 8 Sep): initial reaction & questions

[Deleted User]

SnakePlissken said:

[Deleted User] said:

SnakePlissken said:

[Deleted User] said:

SnakePlissken said:

Deleted_User said:

SnakePlissken said:

The electricty price is affected by gas, no matther the amount generated, it inflates the daily unit price on the market.
(Today on Radio4  show 'more or Less'  explain that recently gas has been used more, but more importantly even when gas use  is low it affects all generation prices on the market.

." This is because the gas power plants are the generator of last resort, nuclear is genearlly always on and renewables are always on if conditions are right. There is almost  always are requirement for some extra genaration somewhere in the uk on top of that. And that capacity comes from gas generation".  Which sets the price for the whole day no mattger how much is generated from as daily price is based on the last  most expensive electricty

And that's partially true but misses some very very important points by trying to make it simple for people to understand.

Electricity price is affected by gas, absolutely.  But neither maximum daily spot price, nor system buy/sell prices (which are the ones applied to balance the system in each trading period) directly set the price received by all generators on all days, which is what the show alluded to.

Listen to the show on R4, its a fact.
Thats what more or less show is, it bebunks incorrect information and provide statistcs and facts on current news. Be it claims that 1/3 of pakistans lands mass was flooded, whichnit wasnt. Or the facts on why electricty prices are so high

Im correct in what im saying as i transcripted what the expert on the show said

If your saying im wrong, listen to link and if you disagree with the expert guest who gave the information complain to the show and say in your expert opinion, they are wrong as you know more than their invited guest.

Not saying you're wrong in what you heard, just that the expert was simplifying the situation (as you would when trying to explain something as complex as international energy markets to the general listener).

And yes, I will trust my expert opinion - I have been published and spoken at international conferences on electricity market design, CfDs, capacity charges, and all the other things that go into this.

Still nae links though.

If you make claims back it up with evidence, otherwise "its an opinion"

I gave you links last time, and you just decided to "agree to disagree".

I'm not going to do your research for you.

Enjoy your trolling.

Not trolling, you replied to me 1st.

You responeded to wherevi said cao doesnt take in all electric users

If there was a block/ignore button, like other forums have would i would block you

Goodbye, i wont reply to you again, please dont reply to me either.

And we can then ignore each other with out a block button

Ok, I'll bite.  Given you can't do your own research, I'll put some more here.



Here's the official OFGEM cap table.  Notice those two columns at the right? That's the caps for things like Economy 7.


Here's the 'typical users', again the official OFGEM table.  See that bit with Profile Class 2?  That's all-electric households.


Here's the official OFGEM list of data sources that combine into the wholesale price that they use for setting caps and balancing payments between suppliers and generators.  The only one spoken about on R4 was "clearing prices".  There are several others, most of which have nothing to do with gas.


Here are the intraday wholesale prices for the UK for 7:30am (left) and 7am (right).  Notice how the prices are different?  How does this match with "the highest price sets the price for the whole day"?

And by the way, there is an ignore option, which one of the forum moderators can point you to.  I don't mute or ignore people, however, as that would be censorship and it would mean incorrect information could be spread without challenge - entirely unhelpful to the rest of the users of the forum.

The_Green_Hornet

SnakePlissken said:

Deleted_User said:

SnakePlissken said:

Deleted_User said:

SnakePlissken said:

Deleted_User said:

SnakePlissken said:

The electricty price is affected by gas, no matther the amount generated, it inflates the daily unit price on the market.
(Today on Radio4  show 'more or Less'  explain that recently gas has been used more, but more importantly even when gas use  is low it affects all generation prices on the market.

." This is because the gas power plants are the generator of last resort, nuclear is genearlly always on and renewables are always on if conditions are right. There is almost  always are requirement for some extra genaration somewhere in the uk on top of that. And that capacity comes from gas generation".  Which sets the price for the whole day no mattger how much is generated from as daily price is based on the last  most expensive electricty

And that's partially true but misses some very very important points by trying to make it simple for people to understand.

Electricity price is affected by gas, absolutely.  But neither maximum daily spot price, nor system buy/sell prices (which are the ones applied to balance the system in each trading period) directly set the price received by all generators on all days, which is what the show alluded to.

Listen to the show on R4, its a fact.
Thats what more or less show is, it bebunks incorrect information and provide statistcs and facts on current news. Be it claims that 1/3 of pakistans lands mass was flooded, whichnit wasnt. Or the facts on why electricty prices are so high

Im correct in what im saying as i transcripted what the expert on the show said

If your saying im wrong, listen to link and if you disagree with the expert guest who gave the information complain to the show and say in your expert opinion, they are wrong as you know more than their invited guest.

Not saying you're wrong in what you heard, just that the expert was simplifying the situation (as you would when trying to explain something as complex as international energy markets to the general listener).

And yes, I will trust my expert opinion - I have been published and spoken at international conferences on electricity market design, CfDs, capacity charges, and all the other things that go into this.

Still nae links though.

If you make claims back it up with evidence, otherwise "its an opinion"

I gave you links last time, and you just decided to "agree to disagree".

I'm not going to do your research for you.

Enjoy your trolling.

Not trolling, you replied to me 1st.

You responeded to wherevi said cao doesnt take in all electric users

If there was a block/ignore button, like other forums have would i would block you

Goodbye, i wont reply to you again, please dont reply to me either.

And we can then ignore each other with out a block button

• How do I 'ignore' another user?

  You'll come across other posters on any Forum, whose posts you simply don't like or want to read. The Forum has a useful 'ignore' feature which means you can opt to not see a user's posts. To add someone to your ignore list, click their username, view their profile, click on the downward arrow in the red button and select ignore – all done!

  Of course, if someone is breaking the rules in their posts, use the report feature. Don't PM (private message) or engage publicly with people you've taken a dislike to – if you do and it breaks the rules, we may infract your account. Instead, use 'ignore' and move on.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/site/forum-faqs/

tlcgrantham

According to Which Ofgem estimates the new unit rates for Electricity will be around 34p per kWh and an average of 10.3p per kWh for gas. Standing charge for Electricity at 46p per day but no info for gas. Sorry can’t post links.

[Deleted User]

tlcgrantham said:

According to Which Ofgem estimates the new unit rates for Electricity will be around 34p per kWh and an average of 10.3p per kWh for gas. Standing charge for Electricity at 46p per day but no info for gas. Sorry can’t post links.

Slightly cheaper than we guessed, but within the range - I wouldn't say that the final numbers will be much different from that.

mmmmikey

Deleted_User said:

tlcgrantham said:

According to Which Ofgem estimates the new unit rates for Electricity will be around 34p per kWh and an average of 10.3p per kWh for gas. Standing charge for Electricity at 46p per day but no info for gas. Sorry can’t post links.

Slightly cheaper than we guessed, but within the range - I wouldn't say that the final numbers will be much different from that.

Hi - these are the same numbers that are reported in The Sun

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/19761289/important-update-energy-customers-fixed-deals/

I don't know about you, but if I want a definitive, objective view on ANYTHING The Sun is always my first port of call so I think at least we can be confident we have another piece of the jigsaw

SnakePlissken

tlcgrantham said:

According to Which Ofgem estimates the new unit rates for Electricity will be around 34p per kWh and an average of 10.3p per kWh for gas. Standing charge for Electricity at 46p per day but no info for gas. Sorry can’t post links.

Do you know if it gave any info on economy 7 or other similar tarrifs?

mmmmikey

...about 50% higher than April fix for gas and 22% higher for electricity....

mmmmikey

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/liz-trusss-energy-guarantee-puts-price-cap-at-2500-for-a-typical-household-for-two-years-calculate-your-new-bills-aitQB9G0bkD5

tlcgrantham

SnakePlissken said:

tlcgrantham said:

According to Which Ofgem estimates the new unit rates for Electricity will be around 34p per kWh and an average of 10.3p per kWh for gas. Standing charge for Electricity at 46p per day but no info for gas. Sorry can’t post links.

Do you know if it gave any info on economy 7 or other similar tarrifs?

It didn’t. I saw the item on Apple News if you want to look for it

mmmmikey

tlcgrantham said:

SnakePlissken said:

tlcgrantham said:

According to Which Ofgem estimates the new unit rates for Electricity will be around 34p per kWh and an average of 10.3p per kWh for gas. Standing charge for Electricity at 46p per day but no info for gas. Sorry can’t post links.

Do you know if it gave any info on economy 7 or other similar tarrifs?

It didn’t. I saw the item on Apple News if you want to look for it

link in my last post