thread for us fixers so many ??????

ariarnia

pickapennyup said:

well let's see what tomorrow brings
im away tomorrow ro Dartmouth Navel college (poud mummy) for a few days so will pop in and out of this thread and lets see what the state of play is

im sure you'll be busy but if you haven't before and you get a chance duck into the heritage museum it's really worth a few minutes. even better if they've got a guided tour on (not sure if they're doing them around the college since corona)

pickapennyup

ariarnia said:

pickapennyup said:

well let's see what tomorrow brings
im away tomorrow ro Dartmouth Navel college (poud mummy) for a few days so will pop in and out of this thread and lets see what the state of play is

im sure you'll be busy but if you haven't before and you get a chance duck into the heritage museum it's really worth a few minutes. even better if they've got a guided tour on (not sure if they're doing them around the college since corona)

thank you is the museum at the naval college,Friday is pass out and meeting the boss's etc all new to me my son has just got back from the Falklands,thanks for the heads up im sure my younger one would enjoy the museum to

ariarnia

pickapennyup said:

ariarnia said:

pickapennyup said:

well let's see what tomorrow brings
im away tomorrow ro Dartmouth Navel college (poud mummy) for a few days so will pop in and out of this thread and lets see what the state of play is

im sure you'll be busy but if you haven't before and you get a chance duck into the heritage museum it's really worth a few minutes. even better if they've got a guided tour on (not sure if they're doing them around the college since corona)

thank you is the museum at the naval college,Friday is pass out and meeting the boss's etc all new to me my son has just got back from the Falklands,thanks for the heads up im sure my younger one would enjoy the museum to

wonderful. I'm sure you will have a lovely time  

here is the information. https://www.devonmuseums.net/Britannia-Museum,-Britannia-Royal-Naval-College/Devon-Museums/

my OH was a navy brat so we always seem to end up visiting any publicly accessible places if we're in the area. it's been a few years since we've been up that way but even if the tours aren't on then the collage is interesting and full of history. I remember the chapel was beautiful.

hope you have lovely weather and you have a great time with your family. a much better way to spend the day than the rest of us on here speculating and commenting on the government plans and what they mean for the future. 

pickapennyup

ariarnia said:

pickapennyup said:

ariarnia said:

pickapennyup said:

well let's see what tomorrow brings
im away tomorrow ro Dartmouth Navel college (poud mummy) for a few days so will pop in and out of this thread and lets see what the state of play is

im sure you'll be busy but if you haven't before and you get a chance duck into the heritage museum it's really worth a few minutes. even better if they've got a guided tour on (not sure if they're doing them around the college since corona)

thank you is the museum at the naval college,Friday is pass out and meeting the boss's etc all new to me my son has just got back from the Falklands,thanks for the heads up im sure my younger one would enjoy the museum to

wonderful. I'm sure you will have a lovely time  

here is the information. https://www.devonmuseums.net/Britannia-Museum,-Britannia-Royal-Naval-College/Devon-Museums/

my OH was a navy brat so we always seem to end up visiting any publicly accessible places if we're in the area. it's been a few years since we've been up that way but even if the tours aren't on then the collage is interesting and full of history. I remember the chapel was beautiful.

hope you have lovely weather and you have a great time with your family. a much better way to spend the day than the rest of us on here speculating and commenting on the government plans and what they mean for the future. 

ah thanks for that,yes im looking forward to it but yes my son is always banging on about the Navy and anything to do with it he loves it

yes better time spent with the family then doing myself no favours over bloomin utilities lol

phillw

sienew said:
To be fair though, both leadership candidates (one who is now the PM) specifically ruled out almost the exact proposal that is now about to be announced.

She has been flying kites, briefing different things to different people, to see what would go down well.

Her allies insisted she hasn't taken anything off the table after the BBC reported sources saying she had "ruled out" further direct support,

Mstty

phillw said:

sienew said:
To be fair though, both leadership candidates (one who is now the PM) specifically ruled out almost the exact proposal that is now about to be announced.

She has been flying kites, briefing different things to different people, to see what would go down well.

Her allies insisted she hasn't taken anything off the table after the BBC reported sources saying she had "ruled out" further direct support,

Surely she was flying kites to see what took off, not what went down well?

Aylesbury_Duck

sienew said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Steve_79_P said:

"It seems to me that many who fixed expect to have their cake and eat it.  Isn't it similar to taking insurance or fixing a mortgage?  You pay a premium to protect against something that might happen.  If the thing doesn't happen you might argue your money was "wasted", but would you have been comfortable not fixing? "

Market forces haven't changed the rates. Without intervention rates would be as per OFGEM sept cap and only going one way. Essentially rates will STILL be this high but the government backed loans will cover the difference. 

In the mortgage example, it's akin to me fixing at say 4% when I could take a variable rate at 2%. Fixed mortgage rates are usually lower than the SVR, the only time they aren't is when it is strongly suspected that rates will rise, so we know a rise is coming.....

So sometime afterwards, the (variable) rates are due to RISE to 8%. BUT the gov steps in cos people won't be able to pay and the banks will go bust, and people will lose their homes. So they pay the banks 5% of the interest (as a loan out of general taxation) and the customers only have to PAY 3%.. The interest rate is STILL 8%. The bank still gets 8%. 

Meanwhile the guy who is on the fixed rate pays more than those who are "paying" 8%, gets no help from the gov, the bank makes less money off him, and still has to shoulder some of the debt which will accrue helping everyone else but him.

Fixers would happily bite the bullet if market forces changed the rates. It's a risk we know. They also wouldn't mind paying a bit more for security, knowing they can afford the bills.

The rates have not gone down, the gov have only chosen to help some people whilst claiming to help all.

Great post, well constructed, explained and argued, thank you.  I can see the flaw in my mortgage analogy.

I'm not convinced by the bolded part, though.  As I see it, the rumoured government intervention is part of market forces.  We're already well into the era of government intervention, with price caps being in place for a while now, and the rebates and other support measures having been in place for while, too.  At what point do these things become market forces, because we're well past being in a "pure" commercial market.  It's in those circumstances that many have fixed, knowing full well that government has already intervened substantially, and may do so again.  That's the risk they took.  I have greater sympathy with those that fixed a long time ago, before substantial government intervention occurred,  I can see why they feel they've lost out if the suspected intervention is realised.

To be fair though, both leadership candidates (one who is now the PM) specifically ruled out almost the exact proposal that is now about to be announced.

Although maybe politicians lying is a market force that never really changes. It certainly shouldn't be though.

After the last few years of Tory nonsense, that genuinely meant nothing to me.  They were both desperately throwing out all sorts of rubbish designed only to appeal to 180,000 party members, most of whom (I expect) are fairly immune to utility price rises, anyway.

[Deleted User]

Aylesbury_Duck said:

sienew said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Steve_79_P said:

"It seems to me that many who fixed expect to have their cake and eat it.  Isn't it similar to taking insurance or fixing a mortgage?  You pay a premium to protect against something that might happen.  If the thing doesn't happen you might argue your money was "wasted", but would you have been comfortable not fixing? "

Market forces haven't changed the rates. Without intervention rates would be as per OFGEM sept cap and only going one way. Essentially rates will STILL be this high but the government backed loans will cover the difference. 

In the mortgage example, it's akin to me fixing at say 4% when I could take a variable rate at 2%. Fixed mortgage rates are usually lower than the SVR, the only time they aren't is when it is strongly suspected that rates will rise, so we know a rise is coming.....

So sometime afterwards, the (variable) rates are due to RISE to 8%. BUT the gov steps in cos people won't be able to pay and the banks will go bust, and people will lose their homes. So they pay the banks 5% of the interest (as a loan out of general taxation) and the customers only have to PAY 3%.. The interest rate is STILL 8%. The bank still gets 8%. 

Meanwhile the guy who is on the fixed rate pays more than those who are "paying" 8%, gets no help from the gov, the bank makes less money off him, and still has to shoulder some of the debt which will accrue helping everyone else but him.

Fixers would happily bite the bullet if market forces changed the rates. It's a risk we know. They also wouldn't mind paying a bit more for security, knowing they can afford the bills.

The rates have not gone down, the gov have only chosen to help some people whilst claiming to help all.

Great post, well constructed, explained and argued, thank you.  I can see the flaw in my mortgage analogy.

I'm not convinced by the bolded part, though.  As I see it, the rumoured government intervention is part of market forces.  We're already well into the era of government intervention, with price caps being in place for a while now, and the rebates and other support measures having been in place for while, too.  At what point do these things become market forces, because we're well past being in a "pure" commercial market.  It's in those circumstances that many have fixed, knowing full well that government has already intervened substantially, and may do so again.  That's the risk they took.  I have greater sympathy with those that fixed a long time ago, before substantial government intervention occurred,  I can see why they feel they've lost out if the suspected intervention is realised.

To be fair though, both leadership candidates (one who is now the PM) specifically ruled out almost the exact proposal that is now about to be announced.

Although maybe politicians lying is a market force that never really changes. It certainly shouldn't be though.

After the last few years of Tory nonsense, that genuinely meant nothing to me.  They were both desperately throwing out all sorts of rubbish designed only to appeal to 180,000 party members, most of whom (I expect) are fairly immune to utility price rises, anyway.

Very much so - the only thought was “what will win me this vote”, nothing about what would actually be a good idea.

[Deleted User]

From the news this morning (I think R4 Today):

"[Martin] Lewis also calls for those who are on fixed-price energy tariffs to be allowed to switch to the new state subsidised energy tariff without facing any exit penalty."

Mstty

[Deleted User] said:

From the news this morning (I think R4 Today):

"[Martin] Lewis also calls for those who are on fixed-price energy tariffs to be allowed to switch to the new state subsidised energy tariff without facing any exit penalty."

I guess the question here is what happens when customer do this as it leaves the energy supplier with cheaper hedged energy they bought for that fix, much cheaper than they can buy now and they can now resell that at full Ofgem price cap rates and claim the difference from this £100bilion plus slush fund.

Just a thought