Letter Before Claim (From a resident taking photos while I was making a delivery)

vanillasky2

I've got a Letter Before Claim from Gladstones that I need to respond to before Friday 9th September

An angry resident took photos, sent them to Parking Control Management UK and they issued the original ticket.

The offending car in question was being used to delivering parcels for Amazon, but on a self-employed basis, you can clearly see a bunch of Amazon boxes inside

It was dark and there wasn’t any obvious visitor parking spaces for the tower block or safe spaces to park.

Unfortunately there is a sign visible, right next to the parking space.

I came back to the van to find an angry woman had got out of her car and was taking photos of the van, which unfortunately was parked in her specific spot - she completely ignored my attempt to talk/explain/apologise to her and continued to take photos.

The photos show the car in the space, They don't show me driving the car

It was only parked there for a couple of minutes.

I've read the newbie post, and realise I really need to respond ASAP - and that I've made mistakes in not appealing –
I'm also not sure if it needs to be paid because the resident who took the photos isn't a parking officer?

Please advise!

Fruitcake

Send an SAR asap to the DPO of the PPC as per the NEWBIES. You will need to include non-photo proof of ID.

Send the standard holding instruction to Gladstones stating that whilst you deny the debt, you are seeking debt advice and therefore require the case to be put on hold for 30 days as per the pre-action protocol for debt claims.
You need to do this asap as well since the LoC was dated the 10th of August, so your 30 day deadline before they issue a claim is nearly up.

If you have the NTK, check to see if it was or was not PoFA compliant.
Get photos of the site and signage.
Complain to the landowner and your MP.

You should look at the ICO website to see what it says about data handling and data controllers, because self-ticketers/residents passing on vehicle details is unlikely to be registered as a data controller.

Coupon-mad

It wouldn't even have to be paid if she was a PCM employee.

Complete scam, but you do have to respond and later, you will get a claim and you'll win in court.

vanillasky2

Thanks for the above replies and advice.

(I tried complaining to the landowner and they didn't care.)

I sent the following as a result:

I am writing in response to the Letter Before Claim you’ve send me dated BLANK BLANK

I am seeking debt advice but I deny any debt and the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017.

I am sending your client an SAR – they have not provided me with an email whereby I can make my request and I cannot find any details to contact their Data Protection Officer via their website or on the letters I’ve received.

I have called them but couldn’t get through to anyone. I will call them again tomorrow to request the email that they refer to in their privacy policy (link not allowed) but do not provide

Please acknowledge receipt of this email and that my case has been put ‘on hold’ and for how long."

– BLANK  

When they didn't respond to the above, I called Gladstones and they confirmed the case had been put on hold.

@Coupon-mad "It wouldn't even have to be paid if she was a PCM employee."
Can you explain why please? And do you still think that I will get a claim and win in court? 

UPDATE 1: I've now found the email (DataProtectionOfficer@gladstonessolicitors.co.uk) and will email with the SAR tonight (Jan 2nd) as originally instructed by @Fruitcake

UPDATE 2: I've now got this letter threatening to commence legal proceedings from this Thursday 5th Jan

Is the next step still just to make the SAR and report back here with the outcome of that?

Is there anything else I need to do / should do?

Thank you

Mouse007

Without getting involved in your particular case right now (I may do in due course) what (to everybody else) is the overriding problem here?

How long will it be before the likes of Amazon, DPD, Hermes, Royal Mail etc start to refuse to deliver to places invested by Private Parking Companies?

You should complain bitterly to Amazon that this is an undeliverable address, you can’t afford to deliver here if it costs £170 to do so. That charge needs to be added to the delivery cost, payable upon order and paid to you before delivery will be attempted.

Coupon-mad

Respond and state that no term was breached (briefly explain why) and say the case can be as 'live' as they like in Gladstones' and their ex-clamper client's cloud cuckoo land, but in fact any hope of a cause of action is dead in the water.  Perhaps their solicitor should read Jopson v HomeGuard and have a re-think.

Rather than flogging dead horses like this case (where the car wasn't even parked but was involved in an authorised brief delivery) Gladstones and PCM's time would be far better spent preparing for the new Code of Practice, before either or both are banned from handling DVLA data, should they fail to comply due to predatory/rogue conduct, such as that of PCM in this case.

Re your other question, it's a private parking charge!  Of course you don't pay it, all the time this rogue industry remains unregulated and issues extortionate £100 'PCNs' like confetti.

KeithP

vanillasky2 said:

UPDATE 1: I've now found the email (DataProtectionOfficer@gladstonessolicitors.co.uk) and will email with the SAR tonight (Jan 2nd) as originally instructed by @Fruitcake

There is no point in sending a Subject Access Request to Gladstones.

Your request needs to be sent to Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd and as you say, their Privacy page does not give you their DPO's email address.

I would send it to info@pcm-uk.co.uk and ask them to pass your request to their Data Protection Officer. Although having said that, dpo@pcm-uk.co.uk has been suggested before.

MalMonroe

Hi, this really is outrageous.

I'd just like to add (I've had three similar invoices at various times in the past and paid none of them) that the letter dated 8 December says that they may be instructed to commence legal proceedings . . . etc.  So they don't even know whether they're going to be instructed. That's another effort to scare you into paying up. 

I agree with what Coupon-mad and KeithP say. 

vanillasky2

Mouse007 said:

Without getting involved in your particular case right now (I may do in due course) what (to everybody else) is the overriding problem here?

How long will it be before the likes of Amazon, DPD, Hermes, Royal Mail etc start to refuse to deliver to places invested by Private Parking Companies?

You should complain bitterly to Amazon that this is an undeliverable address, you can’t afford to deliver here if it costs £170 to do so. That charge needs to be added to the delivery cost, payable upon order and paid to you before delivery will be attempted.

I did try emailing and phoning Amazon Flex support, but as I was delivering as a freelancer via Amazon Flex, they were quick to point out that any parking charges incurred while delivering are my responsibility to deal with / and my fault. Maybe I could have argued that it was an undeliverable address, but I would have had to take the parcel back to the depot (at my cost, and it would negatively affect my stats). In the moment it made more sense to park in an empty safe place at the delivery tower block for a couple of minutes. 

vanillasky2

KeithP said:

vanillasky2 said:

UPDATE 1: I've now found the email (DataProtectionOfficer@gladstonessolicitors.co.uk) and will email with the SAR tonight (Jan 2nd) as originally instructed by @Fruitcake

There is no point in sending a Subject Access Request to Gladstones.

Your request needs to be sent to Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd and as you say, their Privacy page does not give you their DPO's email address.

I would send it to info@pcm-uk.co.uk and ask them to pass your request to their Data Protection Officer. Although having said that, dpo@pcm-uk.co.uk has been suggested before.

Well spotted Keith, I noticed it was the wrong DPO email while writing the SAR email... I've sent a SAR to the info@pcm-uk.co.uk and cc'd dpo@pcm-uk.co.uk  asking for... as instructed (but I also don't have photos of the signs so I've asked them for those)

- all photos taken- all letters/emails sent and received
- all data held, all evidence that you will rely on in court inc. all signs that you claim were visible, present and applicable to the PCN issued
- a full copy of the PCN issued, and the NTK sent (I don't have the NTK anymore)
I've asked for electronic copies (for my benefit) of the requested information.

Should I send an email to Gladstones informing them of this SAR request? 

vanillasky2

Coupon-mad said:

Respond and state that no term was breached (briefly explain why) and say the case can be as 'live' as they like in Gladstones' and their ex-clamper client's cloud cuckoo land, but in fact any hope of a cause of action is dead in the water.  Perhaps their solicitor should read Jopson v HomeGuard and have a re-think.

Rather than flogging dead horses like this case (where the car wasn't even parked but was involved in an authorised brief delivery) Gladstones and PCM's time would be far better spent preparing for the new Code of Practice, before either or both are banned from handling DVLA data, should they fail to comply due to predatory/rogue conduct, such as that of PCM in this case.

Re your other question, it's a private parking charge!  Of course you don't pay it, all the time this rogue industry remains unregulated and issues extortionate £100 'PCNs' like confetti.

@Coupon-mad you seem to have an intimidating and reassuring amount of experience/posts dealing with this kind of thing

So please help me understand how no term was breached? ... 
You've said that I "wasn't even parked but involved in an authorised brief delivery" ... is that why you're saying no term was breached? Because I was making an 'authorised brief delivery' and was therefore not 'parked'?
They seem to be claiming any amount of time in the bay is cause for a valid PCN...

Any chance that they'll just stop / give up and not take me to court? 
Can it be disregarded somehow because the photos are from a resident (not a camera/registered Parking Control Officer?)

Thanks again